Thread Reserection

But I suppose my point is that we can redefine what 4Bw vs 3Bw actually is.
My question, was apart from the Longbow which has it's own sub-element, was bow shooting more effective during the Medieval period than during the ancient/classical period?

If so, why? Does it warrant a more powerful bow element as Tim suggested, or do you simulate that with other outside factors (terrain, side support etc.).

I was running on the assumption that the massed bow had somehow changed, so that it warranted both a "bow" element, and a "shooter" element.
The other thing I was trying to do is also solve for the 4Ax, 4Bw, 8Bw weakness that we'd been discussing earlier, and finding a solution that might solve both. There will be knockon effects (I think Wb is going to be affected), so there might have to be tweaks there.

It is a good point though, perhaps all these rules need to be period specific..

Short answer: yes. They were conditional. Variables that made that outcome happen at Halidon Hill, Homildon Hill, Crecy, Poiters, Agincourt, were all reliant on specific conditions including commanders willing to charge a prepared defensive position on ground favorable to the defender.

Snowcat has already pointed out that 4Bw rules would then extend to a whole range of missile troops who never historically enjoyed the success that the English/Welsh did.

I would also look at those engagements that weren't decisively determined by missile fire. Armchair historians like to dismiss WotR missile fire as inferior to that of their grandfather's both in volume and quality. so look at Shrewesbury instead. Clash of arms was required to break the line.

I think what you want is scenario based games to recreate Agincourt ( or perhaps, a different game all together.)

Well, I’m not the only one who thinks that bows are underpowered in DBA.

MedievalThomas, one of the development team, wants at least longbows and crossbow to have
a combat factor of 3 against foot (although that would make their shooting more powerful against
Pk, Ax, Wb, Ps, and all other foot, not just when facing Bd and Sp).

Joe Collins, another one of the development team, wants to have +1 PIP to contact bows (although
that mythical ‘shooting safety zone’, caused by not allowing bows to gang-up at short range, means
that heavy foot would just sit there knowing they can’t be killed until they get a high PIP score).

Primuspilus, not one of the development team, also recognizes the problem, and doesn’t want to
alter the PIP costs or the shooting power, but to merely +1 to 4Ax and 4Bows in close combat against
heavy foot (on the justification that 4Ax and 4Bows are trained, disciplined or just naturally stubborn
enough to have the sense to temporarily close ranks and adopt close order when fighting heavy foot,
unlike the untrained and disordered native 3Ax and 3Bow...although people are reluctant to accept
this simple fix despite it being easy with no knock-on effects).

I myself also recognize the problem, and my possible solution is to reduce the heavy foot (Bd, Sp, Pk)
by one combat factor (although the "+1 to 4Ax/4Bow when in melee with heavy infantry" suggestion
is cleaner and simpler, being just a new tactical factor that fixes not one but two problems in one go).

So yes, the people above, and many others, do want a different game altogether...
...one that is play-balanced and based on historical accounts.
DBA could be that game, with a few “House Rules” to tweak it up a bit.

Tom has been passionate about the power of English war bows for a solid 3 decades. I do not expect that to change anytime soon

Not strictly what you asked for Jim, but food for thought...

I know the feeling. Something about it just pulls you in... like recoiling in front of an impetuous warband

I suppose something else to think about is what outcome one is looking for for the game overall. More plus modifiers on a d6 based system like this leads to more inconclusive outcomes per combat resulting in more of a scrum which can draw the game out many more bounds. Negative modifiers can really shift the game play to more dramatic results. The current advantage blades enjoy is that its comparatively challenging to get a destroyed result against them ( even with other blades).