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Post by greedo on Feb 19, 2020 18:42:46 GMT
I'm sure this has been discussed before, but thought I'd toss this in. Thought about how to help Bw vs Sp interactions. My EAP vs Sp again..
What if you put a Bw behind another unit, it can "overhead shoot" at targets to the front element's front? the rear element must be lined up behind the front element, corner to corner etc.
The question would be does the bow range start at the front of the front element or the Bw element? Putting it out front seems too powerful, so putting it coming from the front of the bw element means that you'll generally get a single shooting phase to hit whatever is coming to you instead of 2, BUT you can have protection from spears, blades etc. out in front, or intermingled. This might also mean you could get rid of bow/blade side support.
This idea came from To The Strongest in which the Persian bows are lined up behind one another, the rear most element gets to fire at reduced range and only straight ahead, but it still add some umph to the shooting before they get mulched by the hoplites in contact.
Might create more problems than it solves, and as I said I'm sure this has been thought of before, but worth thinking about.
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Post by wargamerdale on Feb 24, 2020 1:04:07 GMT
I like the idea. I've often thought why couldn't the archers shoot over the troops shielding them. An arrow hitting from above must hurt just as much as one coming straight at you, no? I have a feeling "overhead shooting" was sort of built in as a support feature in DBA, but I like the action feel of this. Will try it out. Thanks.
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Post by greedo on Feb 24, 2020 15:04:08 GMT
It could be an interesting trade off. 8Bw represents pavisiers and so they get +1 in cc with their numbers BUT if you have two tanks of 4Bw then perhaps you get to shoot at cv 3,5 because of the rain of arrows.. maybe just 3,4.
Then again what would happen if you back up 8Bw with a 4Bw?? You’d get a great shooting bonus but at the expense of decreased frontage.
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Post by goragrad on Feb 24, 2020 21:12:10 GMT
DBM had, and I presume DBMM as well has, rear support for BW. My understanding when starting DBA was that due to the larger ground scale that rear support was not included in DBA.
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Post by greedo on Feb 25, 2020 14:50:56 GMT
DBM had, and I presume DBMM as well has, rear support for BW. My understanding when starting DBA was that due to the larger ground scale that rear support was not included in DBA. I did not know that! Was this behind the move to 8Bw getting a +1 in cc? Or was this rear support to bow shooting do “darken the sky”?
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Post by goragrad on Feb 27, 2020 6:33:36 GMT
That I don't know - I wasn't party to that process.
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Post by medievalthomas on Feb 27, 2020 21:30:50 GMT
Both DBM and DBMM had two rank shooting with the second rank adding a +1.
So in DBM archers had a practical shooting CF of +3 and in DBMM, because they have a CF of +3 when shooting, they had a practical shooting CF of +4.
No attempt was made to scale this up to DBA where deeper formations are assumed. Hence some of the issues with shooting that have dogged DBA.
TomT
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Post by greedo on Feb 28, 2020 6:02:54 GMT
Very interesting Thomas. Thanks for this insight. Perhaps that’s what we could do: 8Bw gets +1 cv in bow shooting and cc but leave it at 3. 4Bw could benefit from +1 shooting but not cv if they double rank. That should really allow them to threaten incoming Sp but they will get mulched once combat is joined. And there’s still an incentive to pick 4Bw. Have to play test this to see if it’s over powered. Now 4Ax are still weak, but at that’s a problem for another day. Double ranked 4Ax?
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Post by paulisper on Feb 28, 2020 8:20:24 GMT
Now 4Ax are still weak, but at that’s a problem for another day. Double ranked 4Ax? No need, just make them +1 v Sp, Bd and Pk and they get to stand up in a front on fight v solid foot, as they should do... Reducing fast troops to 2BW movement in rough and bad going would help to balance everything up too. 😎 P
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