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Post by phippsy on Jan 7, 2020 8:57:32 GMT
During play testing for Alton last night there were some intricate geometries presented involving single elements and Grouos, and my oppo was questioning my application of the rules - which is fine. We agreed to check with the forum.my understanding is that;
1. If the front corner of a single element is contacted by the front edge of a Group, then the element confirms into contact front edge to front edge with the element in the group it was contacted by. And
2. The front corner of a group cannot move into contact with the front edge of an element as illegal, and therefore the element does not conform into contact with the front edge of the element in the group whose corner contacted it.
Is that correct?
Thanks
Peter
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Post by paulisper on Jan 7, 2020 9:14:52 GMT
You have it right and the latest FAQ answers those specific questions on page 3 đ
P
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Post by stevie on Jan 7, 2020 10:14:05 GMT
Paulisper is quite right. I donât know if itâs of any use to you, but I once made a âConforming Flowchartâ to help explain conforming. See fanaticus.boards.net/post/10469/
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Post by phippsy on Jan 7, 2020 10:56:26 GMT
Thanks for that confirmation. Was doubting oneâs knowledge.....Peter
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Post by andrea on Jan 7, 2020 15:13:01 GMT
About 2, it may be worth clarifying that, being illegal, the contact cannot happen at all. The group stops any point before contact at player's discretion, or does not move at all. I am saying that because of that "element in the group whose corner CONTACTED it" in the second part of your sentence.
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Post by goldenhord on Mar 12, 2020 9:41:32 GMT
la FAQ said "a group contacting a single element in good going with its front edge forces the enemy elment to conform "
1. how do you evaluate the contact between the front edge of the group and the single element ? does the group has only to touch the corner of the single element to oblige this last to conform ?
2. Do we agree that a group which only have the distance to contact with his corner of a single element is illegal ?
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Post by stevie on Mar 12, 2020 11:36:41 GMT
Iâll have a go at answering your questions Goldenhord, although others are bound to disagree with me.
Conforming is a two-stage process:-
1) Someone must do the conforming so that at the end of the Movement Phase all the elements will be in
one of the four positions mentioned on page 9 of the rules under âMoving Into Contact With The Enemyâ.
2) The FAQ says âTo trigger conforming you must contact (i.e touch) it with your front-edge in most cases...
...not just with your (front) corner.â
So if a moving groupâs front-corner touches a stationary single element, that wonât trigger conforming,
and the elements would end the Move Phase in an illegal contact (in this case the moving group must
try to get its front-edge to contact the single stationary element, or the contact would not be allowed).
If the moving group can get its front-edge to touch any part of the stationary single element, then the
single element must do the conforming so that it ends the Move Phase in one of the four legal positions.
In other words, there is no such thing as an âillegal contactâ...
...itâs the failure to conform which makes a move illegal.
Now comes the controversial bit
Itâs the job of the single stationary element to conform, and not the responsibility of the moving group.
If the group has to conform then that would break the rule on page 9, third paragraph from the bottom:-
âA single element contacted by a group conforms to it (unless it is entirely in bad/rough going)â
So I see no reason why the moving group needs enough movement to be able to conform and break the
conforming priority sequence. The single element (unless in hindering terrain) has to do the conforming.
So just move the group so that its front-edge touches any part of the stationary single element...
...even if the group has used-up all its movement.
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Post by goldenhord on Mar 12, 2020 12:50:59 GMT
So this is really a distance issue, if the maximal distance of the group do allow him to just touch a corner, no contact
But wwith one milimiter more the group could touch the front edge ,the contact is legal and the single element must conform.
right ?
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Post by paulisper on Mar 12, 2020 13:00:28 GMT
So this is really a distance issue, if the maximal distance of the group do allow him to just touch a corner, no contact But wwith one milimiter more the group could touch the front edge ,the contact is legal and the single element must conform. right ? No, the group need to touch with front edge to any part of the element, which can include the corner. The group cannot contact with just a corner. P |
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Post by stevie on Mar 12, 2020 13:51:58 GMT
Just confirming what Paulisper said, and clarifying my earlier statement:-
âSo just move the group so that the the groupâs front-edge touches any part of the stationary single element...
...even if the group has used-up all its movement.â
Note that conforming happens instantaneously on contact, but âturning-to-faceâ happens after the Move Phase.
So you can get situations where a single element is contacted by a group on itâs flank, but no front-corners touch.
This looks like an illegal contact, but it isnât...the single element has to conform as soon as itâs contacted, so will
end the Move Phase in a legal position (see what I mean about no such thing as âillegal contactâ...itâs the failure
of being able to conform before the end of the Move Phase that makes moving into contact illegal.
See Figure 10...the single elements have run out of movement so can't conform that makes the contacts illegal).
But how can a single element conform if it canât turn-to-face yet?
Simple...IT has to move so that its front-corner touches one of the front-corners of the elements in the group.
Then, once the Move Phase has been fully completed, it will turn-to-face before combat starts (unless already
contacted to its front-edge by then).
By the way, page 9 âMoving Into Contactâ lists four legal end-of-Movement-Phase positions:-
a) Full mutual front-edge contact, with all front-corners touching,
b) Full front-edge to flank-edge contact, with front-corners touching,
c) Full front-edge to rear-edge contact, with all corners touching,
d) An overlap position, with like front-corners touching (i.e. right-to-right or left-to-left).
There is one more legal contact position missing from this list:-
e) In mutual side-edge to side-edge contact.
But this kind of contact (like an overlap position) does not trigger conforming.
Only a front-edge contact by one party or the other activates conforming.
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Post by goldenhord on Mar 12, 2020 14:16:08 GMT
so in conclusion the group could touch with his front edge the corner of the single element but not only with his corner ! good going and front of course;
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Post by stevie on Mar 12, 2020 14:53:27 GMT
Yep...rightly or wrongly, thatâs how my little gang of misfits plays it.  |
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Post by goldenhord on Mar 12, 2020 15:02:27 GMT
THX ALL
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Post by stevie on Mar 12, 2020 15:50:20 GMT
Oh...one more thing. Believe it or not groups CAN move sideways (!). See page 8, third paragraph from the bottom, last sentence:- âNo other changes in frontage, direction or facing can be made, even within a TZ, except to
pivot, wheel and/or slide sideways to line up in an enemy TZ, or to conform in close combat.â...although, unlike the âfree-sideways-slideâ when in mutual front-edge contact, this distant non-contact sideways slide comes out of the groupâs normal movement allowance. Still, I find it often helps to wiggle groups a bit so that their front-edges do make contact...  |
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