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Post by j on Nov 14, 2019 17:16:53 GMT
A couple of questions about conforming on contact.
My opponent had 3 elements of Ax in a Wood & he wanted to come out & engage my Wb
Group moves are not allowed if in Bad Going (except by those composed entirely of Ps, right?) so he had to use 3 PIPs to do this
However, when the move was completed, all 3 elements were in side-to-side & front-corner-to-front-corner contact, looking like a group but as they moved by single moves, are they considered a group when it comes to conforming to enemy?
This is complicated by the fact that his left & centre Ax were in full frontal contact with 2 of my Wb (actually supported by 2 more Wb) but his right hand Ax had made front edge to front corner contact with my left hand Wb (also supported) as it had turned in the previous move
So, the right hand Ax, being a single element (as it did not move as a group but as a single element) should conform to the Wb group, right?
However, it had already moved its full distance to contact this angled group so can it move further in order to do so?
If not, can it be used as an overlap in the other 2 elements of Ax as they fight the other Wb?
Regards,
j
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Post by lkmjbc on Nov 14, 2019 18:18:07 GMT
Egads...
Diagrams needed!
If you move as individual elements, then you must conform as individual elements.
For the rest...I can't follow.
Joe Collins
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Post by bob on Nov 14, 2019 20:49:55 GMT
Note that it is not true that "Group moves are not allowed if in Bad Going" The rule is "A group move by road, or across bad (not rough) going must be in or into a column unless entirely by Psiloi. " So you could move the Ax into a column out of the bad going. If you then contact a single enemy element, it must conform to you.
Do single elements moving into a line at the end, contacting a single element count as a group, making the single element conform. No, as Joe says, each moving element must make legal contact with the enemy.
Does front edge to front corner contact then allow a slide into full front edge contact?
"Contactors conform using their tactical move, but an extra sideways slide of up to 1 BW is allowed if this is necessary to conform after contacting an enemy front edge. "
I think the line of 3 Ax are engaged with your 2 Wb, and the third Wb is at some angle to the end Ax. Did the right Ax move through the TZ of the angled Wb and thus could not reach the two Wb, but had to face the angled Wb.
Need a picture:)
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Post by Vic on Nov 15, 2019 1:14:21 GMT
Am I interpreting the situation correctly? |
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Post by j on Nov 15, 2019 10:43:32 GMT
Am I interpreting the situation correctly? Perfectly! What are you using for the diagram? Regards, j |
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Post by stevie on Nov 15, 2019 11:41:35 GMT
So technically, the ‘right hand Ax’ (looking at it from the blue player’s position) that wants to contact the unaligned Wb column cannot do so...it’s an illegal contact (see figure 10). The Ax have to move and conform individually, as they are single elements contacting a group (i.e. the Wb columns)...and if the Ax doesn’t have enough movement to get its front edge touching the Wb front edge, then it cannot claim the 1 BW free sideways slide. I’m afraid that third Ax will just have to stop short, and not be part of the other Ax group. Some Helpful Downloads can be found here: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And here is the latest Jan 2019 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2019_1st_Quarter
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Post by Baldie on Nov 15, 2019 13:05:06 GMT
Does the aux move at all though.
Not aware of a group being able to drop off a stand during a move so would just the two aux making contact move and the other gets left in the wood
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Post by paulisper on Nov 15, 2019 14:15:51 GMT
Does the aux move at all though. Not aware of a group being able to drop off a stand during a move so would just the two aux making contact move and the other gets left in the wood The key is that they’re not a group - each Ax moves individually P |
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Post by ronisan on Nov 15, 2019 15:56:00 GMT
Hello,
I absolutely agree with Stevie.
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Post by j on Nov 17, 2019 18:39:44 GMT
Have to admit I'd forgotten the "1BW slide" misremebering it as 1/2BW
It makes a lot more sense now, thanks.
A further clarification though? If a sidewise slide of 1BW would not bring it into a legal contact, would that mean that the Ax move could not happen at all?
Regards,
j
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Post by lkmjbc on Nov 17, 2019 22:12:33 GMT
Good thread here...a good question and Vic is the star for providing the diagram.
To answer your last question...if you contact the enemy front edge with your front, then the slide should get you contact. If you are blocked by elements, then the enemy may conform or fight as overlapped.
Joe Collins
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Post by j on Nov 17, 2019 22:25:12 GMT
Good thread here...a good question and Vic is the star for providing the diagram. To answer your last question...if you contact the enemy front edge with your front, then the slide should get you contact. If you are blocked by elements, then the enemy may conform or fight as overlapped. Joe Collins Right, but my question was, presuming no other blockage, if the 1BW distance required in order to comply with a legal contact is exceeded, then there can be no legal contact & therefore the move should be cancelled? Yes, the rules say "One party moves the minimum distance to so Conform. Contactors Conform using their Tactical Move; except that an extra slide sideways of up to 1BW is allowed if this is necessary to Conform after contacting an enemy front edge. Elements contacted this bound by enemy or whose front edge is still in contact when Combat ends automatically Conform if necessary" But they previously say "at least one element of a contacting Group MUST be lined-up with an enemy element... If this is not possible the move does NOT happen" So, if I have to slide by more than 1BW to make a legal contact, is the move cancelled? Regards, j & yeah, thanks for the diagram, Vic. I'd be grateful to know what you used to make it as anything I try to attach (photo or Excel) gets refused as too large a file to send. |
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Post by bob on Nov 17, 2019 23:31:45 GMT
The move need not be cancelled, the Ax can move until it is a "frog's hair" away from the corner of the slanted Wb.
By the way, why not just attack at a diagonal. From the Wb perspective, move the left Ax (opposite the slanted Wb) to attack the center Wb, and the center Ax to attack the right Wb, and the right Ax to form overlap to the center Ax?
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Post by stevie on Nov 18, 2019 0:09:07 GMT
So, if I have to slide by more than 1 BW to make a legal contact, is the move cancelled? Regards, j I think you are more or less correct. To paraphrase “Moving Into Contact with The Enemy”, on page 9:- “At the end of the Movement Phase a conforming element, or at least one element of a conforming group, must be lined-up with an enemy in:- a) Full mutual front-edge contact, with all front-corners touching, b) Full front-edge to flank-edge contact, with front-corners touching, c) Full front-edge to rear-edge contact, with all corners touching, d) An overlap position, with ‘like’ front corners touching (i.e. right-to-right). If a lack of movement prevents any of the above, contact can’t happen.” And ending the movement phase with only a front-edge touching an enemy front-corner simply ain’t on the above list (but note that mutual side-edge to
side-edge contact is not mentioned, but is still allowed as it does not result
in close combat...only front-edges cause combat).Of course, as Bob says, the Ax could still make a move...it just can’t end with its front-edge in contact unless it’s one of the four legal positions listed above. |
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Post by stevie on Nov 18, 2019 0:11:38 GMT
The move need not be cancelled, the Ax can move until it is a "frog's hair" away from the corner of the slanted Wb. By the way, why not just attack at a diagonal. From the Wb perspective, move the left Ax (opposite the slanted Wb) to attack the center Wb, and the center Ax to attack the right Wb, and the right Ax to form overlap to the center Ax? Hmmm...might not be such a good move Bob. Even if the Warbands have my usual luck and roll two ‘1’s’ in close combat so that both front rank Wb elements are destroyed, the unaligned wonky Wb column could still ‘hard flank’ the adjacent Ax (unless the red Wb player rolls a ‘1’ for PIPs
in his bound...but that’s THREE ‘1’s’ in a row, and only I myself get rolls like that!).
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