|
Post by stevie on Oct 27, 2019 13:35:05 GMT
I have another quick question about HoTT 2.1. The combat outcomes on page 23 says that Paladins and Artillery are destroyed if they score less and are ‘in contact’...presumably with the enemy.
Does this also mean that they are destroyed if they are in mutual side-edge contact (or even a corner-to-corner contact) when shot at or bespelled and they score less?... ...remembering of course that they can’t be shot at when in an overlap position of an enemy that IS in front-edge contact with an adjacent friend (but can still be bespelled).
Or should it only apply when they themselves have their own front-edge in contact with the enemy? Meaning they are immune to distant attacks providing no enemy touches them (unless doubled)?
|
|
|
Post by janewilliams20 on Oct 28, 2019 7:37:54 GMT
The HOTT rules are, in general, written with beautiful precision. If it meant "in front-edge contact", it would say so. If it simply says "in contact", then there's no such limitation. Which certainly seems a little odd.
|
|
|
Post by stevie on Oct 28, 2019 9:26:53 GMT
Welcome to Fanaticus Janewilliams. And thanks for the reply. Yes it is odd...but it’s what the rules say. In fact, I’ve already thought of ways I can use (or should that be ‘abuse’) it:- The Flyer and Artillery/Magician combo. Move the Flyer into mutual side-edge contact with enemy Artillery, then pound it with your own Artillery or Magician. If the bugger scores less they’ll be destroyed. The same can be done with enemy Paladins...though probably not with your Magician. In fact, this does make sense when using HoTT to fight World War Two battles... ...the Flyer acts like a spotter plane for your Artillery and Howitzers (i.e. Magicians). Whether it was intended for this purpose I’m not sure, but it’s what I’ll be doing. Some Helpful Downloads can be found here: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes And here is the latest Jan 2019 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2019_1st_Quarter
|
|
|
Post by martin on Oct 28, 2019 9:29:41 GMT
Welcome to Fanaticus Janewilliams. And thanks for the reply. Yes it is odd...but it’s what the rules say. In fact, I’ve already thought of ways I can use (or should that be ‘abuse’) it:- The Flyer and Artillery/Magician combo. Move the Flyer into mutual side-edge contact with enemy Artillery, then pound it with your own Artillery or Magician. If the bugger scores less they’ll be destroyed. The same can be done with enemy Paladins...though probably not with your Magician. In fact, this does make sense when using HoTT to fight World War Two battles... ...the Flyer acts like a spotter plane for your Artillery and Howitzers (i.e. Magicians). Whether it was intended for this purpose I’m not sure, but it’s what I’ll be doing. Some Helpful Downloads can be found here: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes And here is the latest Jan 2019 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2019_1st_Quarter
...I think you’ll find that Hott has an official cutoff date of 3rd August 1939, so is not permitted for use in WWII games .......
|
|
|
Post by stevie on Oct 28, 2019 9:42:01 GMT
"House Rule" it Martin, "House Rule" it! Ha, ha, ha! (There's always World War One of course...)
|
|
|
Post by bob on Oct 30, 2019 3:29:54 GMT
The rules contain an army for 1950 alien invasion, quite a ways past 1939. Moreover, armies in The Stronghold list WW2 and beyond.
|
|
|
Post by bob on Oct 30, 2019 3:40:54 GMT
I have another quick question about HoTT 2.1. The combat outcomes on page 23 says that Paladins and Artillery are destroyed if they score less and are ‘in contact’...presumably with the enemy. Does this also mean that they are destroyed if they are in mutual side-edge contact (or even a corner-to-corner contact) when shot at or bespelled and they score less?... ...remembering of course that they can’t be shot at when in an overlap position of an enemy that IS in front-edge contact with an adjacent friend (but can still be bespelled). Or should it only apply when they themselves have their own front-edge in contact with the enemy? Meaning they are immune to distant attacks providing no enemy touches them (unless doubled)? Indeed the rules are precisely written, but not necessarily all in one place. Note top of page 23, "COMBAT OUTCOME Compare your element's combat total with its opponent's, then make the outcome move specified below. This depends on the type of your element (or stronghold) and that of its main close combat opponent or the main element shooting at or bespelling it. If no outcome is listed and neither side breaks-off, continue fighting next bound." further along, "An element in frontal combat with an enemy flank or rear edge, or aiding an attack on a stronghold, disregards the outcomes listed below, but recoils if a friendly element in contact with the enemy's front recoils, flees, or is destroyed or ensorcelled." Thus, Paladin and Artillery are only destroyed if just beaten only in Frontal close combat with opponent.
|
|
|
Post by martin on Oct 30, 2019 9:59:27 GMT
The rules contain an army for 1950 alien invasion, quite a ways past 1939. Moreover, armies in The Stronghold list WW2 and beyond. I was just joshin’, Bob.... 😊
|
|
|
Post by stevie on Oct 30, 2019 10:30:30 GMT
|
|
|
Post by bob on Oct 30, 2019 20:51:46 GMT
The rules contain an army for 1950 alien invasion, quite a ways past 1939. Moreover, armies in The Stronghold list WW2 and beyond. I was just joshin’, Bob.... 😊 Martin, don't do that to me, I look to you for solutions and I believe everything you write:)
|
|
|
Post by martin on Nov 2, 2019 7:40:08 GMT
Welcome to Fanaticus Janewilliams. And thanks for the reply. Yes it is odd...but it’s what the rules say. In fact, I’ve already thought of ways I can use (or should that be ‘abuse’) it:- The Flyer and Artillery/Magician combo. Move the Flyer into mutual side-edge contact with enemy Artillery, then pound it with your own Artillery or Magician. If the bugger scores less they’ll be destroyed. The same can be done with enemy Paladins...though probably not with your Magician. In fact, this does make sense when using HoTT to fight World War Two battles... ...the Flyer acts like a spotter plane for your Artillery and Howitzers (i.e. Magicians). Whether it was intended for this purpose I’m not sure, but it’s what I’ll be doing. Some Helpful Downloads can be found here: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes And here is the latest Jan 2019 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2019_1st_Quarter
stevie I’ve just spotted a Hott ‘Modern’ extension/adaption, in the Files section of the newly created groups.io DBA-HX site. groups.io/g/DBA-HX/topicsWorth joining - the DBA-HX site has all sorts of useful files. The Humberside Extensions, as you may already know, were a useful ‘add on’ to DBA, and there are many handy files in the archive (transferred over from Yahoo Groups). Martin
|
|
|
Post by stevie on Nov 2, 2019 10:21:26 GMT
Thanks for that Martin. I also found this: ermtony.pbworks.com/w/page/14871507/HOTT%20WW2...but I don’t agree with all they suggest, because (as always), I have my own ideas. Think I’ll post some of my WW2 HoTT Army Lists in another new thread. (As with everything I do, they are quite detailed)Meanwhile, getting back to the subject, even with Bob’s interpretation... (i.e. ”Paladin, Artillery: Destroyed if in close combat contact.”) ...the ‘spotter plane’ effect is still there...at least against Artillery. Move an Aerial element into close combat with the enemy Artillery, then blast it with magic. If it scores less, it will be destroyed, because it IS in close combat. (See fanaticus.boards.net/post/26487/ ) And if the magical attack fails, there is still the aerial attack to be concluded.
|
|
|
Post by martin on Nov 2, 2019 13:07:39 GMT
Thanks for that Martin. I also found this: ermtony.pbworks.com/w/page/14871507/HOTT%20WW2...but I don’t agree with all they suggest, because (as always), I have my own ideas. Think I’ll post some of my WW2 HoTT Army Lists in another new thread. (As with everything I do, they are quite detailed)The site you linked to is by Tony Barr, of East Riding Miniatures fame, who is very much linked to the DBA-HX group, so it looks like much the same info.
|
|
|
Post by bob on Nov 5, 2019 5:18:28 GMT
Thanks for that Martin. I also found this: ermtony.pbworks.com/w/page/14871507/HOTT%20WW2...but I don’t agree with all they suggest, because (as always), I have my own ideas. Think I’ll post some of my WW2 HoTT Army Lists in another new thread. (As with everything I do, they are quite detailed)Meanwhile, getting back to the subject, even with Bob’s interpretation... (i.e. ”Paladin, Artillery: Destroyed if in close combat contact.”) ...the ‘spotter plane’ effect is still there...at least against Artillery. Move an Aerial element into close combat with the enemy Artillery, then blast it with magic. If it scores less, it will be destroyed, because it IS in close combat. (See fanaticus.boards.net/post/26487/ ) And if the magical attack fails, there is still the aerial attack to be concluded. I do not agree (for what it is worth). The rules for Outcomes are for combat outcomes. Outcome depends on "close combat opponent" or main element respelling. The Artillery in close combat contact with the Flyer will be not be destroyed by the element bespelling if it beats it. It is not in close combat with the bespeller. If the flyer defeats it, then it is destroyed. The Artillery can only be destroyed if just beaten by a close combat opponent. COMBAT OUTCOME Compare your element's combat total with its opponent's, then make the outcome move specified below. This depends on the type of your element (or stronghold) and that of its main close combat opponent or the main element shooting at or bespelling it. If no outcome is listed and neither side breaks-off, continue fighting next bound.
|
|
|
Post by stevie on Nov 5, 2019 12:32:04 GMT
Ah, but Bob, what you are now saying is the complete opposite to “pursue if recoiled by magic”. (See fanaticus.boards.net/thread/2286/pursue-recoiled-magic ) You can’t have it both ways...if an element has to pursue an enemy that recoils due to a distant magical attack (because it’s in ‘close combat’), why does that same distant magical attack not affect combat outcomes (when they are are also in ‘close combat’)? So what do the rules actually say? “ Close Combat”, on page 21, says:- “Close combat occurs when an element has moved into, or remains in, both edge and corner-to-corner base contact lined-up with an enemy element, or in at least partial front-edge contact with an enemy Stronghold.” (In other words, having a front-edge in contact means you are in ‘close combat’)" Distant Shooting”, on page 20, says:- “Shooting is not permitted if either the shooting element or target is in the following situations:- - in close combat contact - overlapping an enemy that is in close combat contact to its front - providing rear support to a friendly element that is in close combat to its front” (In other words, you can’t shoot at someone in ‘close combat’)“ Magical Attacks”, on page 20, says:- “Bespelling is permitted even if the target is in close combat.” (An exception to the shooting rule above)“ Pursuit”, on page 26, says:- “An elements of Knights, Behemoths, Beasts or Warband whose close combat opponents recoil, break-off, flee or are destroyed immediately pursues...” (Note that it doesn’t mention what caused the recoil, break-off, flee or destruction, just that if these troops are in ‘close combat’, i.e. have their front-edge in contact, then they must pursue their opponents)Now we get down to the nitty-gritty... ...” Combat Outcomes”, on page 23, says:- "This depends on the type of your element (or Stronghold) and that of its main close combat opponent or the main element shooting at or bespelling it." “If Paladins/Artillery score less: Destroyed if in contact.” (Note that it doesn’t say WHO destroys them, and it doesn’t say WHAT KIND of contact)Conclusion:- * Being in front-edge contact means the element is in ‘close combat’, for ALL purposes. * Being in touch with an enemy means YOU ARE ‘in contact’, even if they are only in mutual side-edge or corner-to-corner contact, with no exceptions given. Therefore, Paladins and Artillery will be destroyed if they score less when an enemy touches them... ...no matter the cause or who it is that is actually rolling the combat die. Would all this be a correct summing-up of the HoTT 2.1 rules as written?
|
|