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Post by snowcat on Sept 20, 2019 0:29:25 GMT
On the flipside, I can see how my opponent might feel having just killed my 2xHd and 1xPs only to be told that he still needs to kill 4 elements to beat me...  |
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Post by snowcat on Sept 20, 2019 0:31:41 GMT
We always play that you must have more elements on table than in the the "Dead Pile" or your army (or battle if playing big battle) is broken. Horde & Ps count as 1/2 an element for this purpose. D3H2 sticks to the HOTT convention of 1/2 points killed which also works well. In multi-player games with several Battles, we allow the broken battles to fight on with a -1 penalty in combat and the only group move allowed is a Hold (remain in place). Individual moves are OK and can be used to attempt to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. Elements that are not held or given an individual PIP Rout (i.e. leave the table). Playtested many times - it makes for an excellent afternoon of gaming. It is a very rare real world battle where quarter losses (in game terms not dead body terms) would break an army particularly where they are often the least important troops in the army. So either of the above methods is a significant improvement. Thomas J. Thomas Fame & Glory Games OK, this D3H2 needs to be got! I shall send an email forthwith. 
Where you write 'quarter losses', do you mean 'one third losses'? (4/12)
Cheers
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Post by paddy649 on Sept 20, 2019 5:57:02 GMT
Would you extend that to the first unit of Ps OR LH? I’d suggest so. An alternative route would be to increase the value of Ps and LH on the tabletop. 3.0 did much to increase the value of Psloi and a “first kill free” rule would do more. LH still feels under valued and one suggestion to increase their value and mobility may be +1 on the PIP dice for every 4 LH in the army.....and yes I do mean that if you have 12 LH (unlikely) you should have 4-10 PIPs and that 8-11 LH should get 3-9 PIPs. Let LH heavy Wimp Wars armies use the speed and flexibility of LH and gain some protection from rolling 1s. The I/43a Kimmerians can give you 12x LH.
You can also get 9x LH + 3x 7Hd or even 9x LH + 3x Ps, etc.
Would like to use your rule wrinkle out with this army.
This is exactly my point. An army like I/43a Kimmerians with 12 x LH is supremely mobile and exists to move and flow around its enemy. It didn’t stand still. Yet it is equally likely to roll 1 for PIPs and stand still as the static Hussites. Nothing is more frustrating when playing LH than working round the flanks to get into a perfect position only to roll low for PIPs for a couple of rounds while your pony’s legs turn to lead and your horsemen, happy in using their initiative 20BW from the commander loose their minds. This leaves your LH pinned to the edge of the table by less mobile forces and unable to act like the horsemen that they are. Low PIPs impact LH armies disproportionately - so giving them +1 PIP per 4 elements of LH on the table counteracts this and IMHO provides a more historical looking game......but you need a lot of LH to benefit from this. |
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Post by jim1973 on Sept 21, 2019 3:17:48 GMT
Low PIPs impact LH armies disproportionately - so giving them +1 PIP per 4 elements of LH on the table counteracts this and IMHO provides a more historical looking game......but you need a lot of LH to benefit from this. I have some concerns that getting 8-9 PIPs may unbalance the game the other way. So I've got an alternative for you paddy649. If an army has more than "X" elements of LH (you choose the number) then the general can choose to take 3 PIPs rather than roll the die for PIPs. As this is less than average for a die roll you have some incentive to take a risk with the die roll. Cheers Jim |
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Post by paddy649 on Sept 21, 2019 5:36:23 GMT
Jim,
Having 8-9 PIPs may indeed unbalance the game the other way but that can be shown by play-testing. If it does then we have the option of throttling the extra PIPs back, +1 for every 5 or 6 LH rather than 4.
However, I don’t think your concerns will play out. A typical army with 6 LH will only get +1 so their average PIP roll is 4.5. Also to get 9 PIPs you’d need 12 LH, no casualties and roll a 6. However, with that much LH I’d argue that you need all the PIPs you can get!
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Post by medievalthomas on Sept 23, 2019 21:30:08 GMT
We always play that you must have more elements on table than in the the "Dead Pile" or your army (or battle if playing big battle) is broken. Horde & Ps count as 1/2 an element for this purpose. D3H2 sticks to the HOTT convention of 1/2 points killed which also works well. In multi-player games with several Battles, we allow the broken battles to fight on with a -1 penalty in combat and the only group move allowed is a Hold (remain in place). Individual moves are OK and can be used to attempt to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. Elements that are not held or given an individual PIP Rout (i.e. leave the table). Playtested many times - it makes for an excellent afternoon of gaming. It is a very rare real world battle where quarter losses (in game terms not dead body terms) would break an army particularly where they are often the least important troops in the army. So either of the above methods is a significant improvement. Thomas J. Thomas Fame & Glory Games OK, this D3H2 needs to be got! I shall send an email forthwith.
Where you write 'quarter losses', do you mean 'one third losses'? (4/12)
Cheers
Yes - 4 of 12.
In D3H2 I'm stuck with Phil rules but I can at least use the HOTT rule that you must kill 1/2 the point value of your opponent. The must have more elements on table than off comes from Knights & Knaves.
TomT |
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Post by medievalthomas on Sept 23, 2019 21:35:25 GMT
As to Bob's kill all suggestion - this too makes an interesting battle. If we feel like playing on we declare - NO QUARTER and keep fighting with the broken side counting demoralized - so they fight at -1 and must use Holds to keep elements from running off. Its rare for the demoralized side to make a come back and turn the tide but when it happens its makes for one fantastic game - and justifies many rounds bought for the winner and a wargaming tale that gets ever larger in the telling. Its good to keep in mind that we do this for fun...
TomT
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