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Post by paddy649 on Aug 21, 2019 5:21:38 GMT
How about a list of all the terms that are not in the rules that people use. I can think of closing the gate or door, soft flank, hard flank, X-ray TZ, quick kill, more. A valid point! Add to that the ubiquitous ZOC and ZOCing. |
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Post by stevie on Aug 21, 2019 6:42:32 GMT
OK, I see it; ‘hard flank” is the long way of saying flank. Soft flank is the funny way of saying side overlap. The rules are hard enough without people making up terms that aren’t even in the rules. So we have chalk flank and cheese flank too. Stevie is good at making lists, How about a list of all the terms that are not in the rules that people use. I can think of closing the gate or door, soft flank, hard flank, X-ray TZ, quick kill, more. I think you have made a pretty good start there Bob. Nonetheless, here is that complete list you requested:- Hard Flank: to bring a front-edge into contact with an element’s side-edge. Soft Flank: mutual side-edges touching each other (an overlap is when just the front-corners touch). Shutting the door: to move from an overlap position into a front-edge touching a side-edge. Quick kill: destroying an element without needing to get double their score. X-Ray TZ: threat zones that are not blocked but pass through troops (in earlier rules they could be blocked). Civilians: a collective name for Camp Followers and City Denizens, who all have the same characteristics. Expendable troops: those who's loss doesn’t count towards defeat (i.e. SCh, Hd, and Civilians). Static troops: those that cannot move into any kind of enemy contact (i.e. Art, WWg, CP, Lit, and CWg). Wing troops: those that can deploy 2 BW from a table side edge (i.e. LH, Cv, Cm, Ax, Ps, and Mtd-Inf). River names: 1-2 = a Paltry River, 3-4 = a Shallow River, 5-6 = a Deep River (the rules give no names for these). Artillery names: Garrison Artillery in a City or Fort has a CF of 2, otherwise they are Field Artillery with a CF of 4. Double bases: what the rules call ‘double elements’ (not to be confused with Hd, which also looks double based). Cocked dice: when a die rolls off the table, or comes to rest at an angle and not fully flat on the table surface. Barker Marker: quote “A rectangle 1 BW x ½ BW with a vertical handle is also very useful for measuring gaps”. R.A.W.: a shorthand way of saying ‘the-rules-as-written’. Rule lawyer: someone (like me) who insists that the rules be followed word-for-word, as printed. House rules: rules invented by players to enhance play or to simulate a particular event in an historical battle. I think that covers just about everything.  Having collective descriptive names (such as Civilians, Expendables, Static Troops, Wing troops, and River Names) makes it much easier to remember stuff...and greatly helps when describing the various troop types and situations. Some Helpful Downloads can be found here: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And here is the latest Jan 2019 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2019_1st_Quarter
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Post by martin on Aug 21, 2019 8:14:20 GMT
You could add...
‘Fall Back’ when they mean recoil, and...
‘Pushed Back’ when they mean recoil (and NOT pushed back),
‘Follow Up’ or ‘Advance’ when they mean pursue
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Post by paddy649 on Aug 21, 2019 8:17:24 GMT
I thought a Barker marker was 40mm x 40mm.
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Post by j on Aug 21, 2019 9:50:24 GMT
I thought a Barker marker was 40mm x 40mm. Yeah, I call the 1BW x 1/2BW one a Half Barker or sometimes an Arthur Barker (Arfur... ha, ha) Regards, j |
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Post by stevie on Aug 21, 2019 10:53:26 GMT
I thought a Barker marker was 40mm x 40mm. Yeah, I call the 1BW x 1/2BW one a Half Barker or sometimes an Arthur Barker (Arfur... ha, ha) Regards, j I like that...the full Barker or his smaller brother the Arthur Barker.  But I just want to reiterate on the word ‘overlap’. DBA 3.0 uses the word ‘overlap’ to simply mean ‘suffer-a-minus-one-penalty-in-close-combat’. But this is just the effect, and not the cause of the effect. For example, there are five (yes FIVE) different positions which causes troops to be ‘overlapped’:- Overlap position: where only front-corners touch, and not front-edges or side-edges (see figure 9a). Soft overlap: where only mutual side-edges are touching, and you can move away from contact. Hard overlap: where troops have an enemy front-edge touching their side-edge or rear-edge. Phantom overlap: where, in certain cases, a front-corner is less than 1 BW from a table edge. Unable to conform overlap: where troops fight as if they were overlapped (see figures 13c to 13e). As you can see, the word ‘overlap’ merely describes the effect (i.e. -1 in close combat) and not the five completely different positions and situations listed above that cause that effect. Some Helpful Downloads can be found here: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And here is the latest Jan 2019 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2019_1st_Quarter
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Post by vtsaogames on Aug 21, 2019 15:51:49 GMT
I thought the purpose of the Barker marker was to delineate the Threat Zone, i.e ZOC. In that case it should be 1 base-width square.
On another note, Rules Lawyer seems to mean someone specific about following the rules, which would apply to me (when I read them correctly).
In the past, I have applied that term to people who bend the rules in ways that assist them. I used that as a euphemism for bad sport or cheater.
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Post by stevie on Aug 21, 2019 17:06:32 GMT
Hmmm...in my local manor we call someone who bends things a ‘ rule bender’ or ‘ misinterpreter’. For example, the Threat Zone rule on page 9 quite clearly states that the far-edge of a TZ only affects an element’s front-edge...but many players insist on ‘bending’ or ‘misinterpreting’ this rule so that the far-edge of a TZ affects any edge touching it, and they deliberately ignore this front-edge requirement. Likewise, the River rule on page 6 quite clearly states that for movement rivers are neither good nor other going...but many players insist on ‘bending’ or ‘misinterpreting’ this rule and try to apply it to combat, even though it specifically says don’t do this. These are just two examples of not following the rules as they are written, word-for-word. To me and my mates a rule lawyer follows the rules to the letter, exactly as they are printed. On the other hand, I have been caught out by some instances of following the rules as they are written. The very first sentence at the top of page 7 says “BUA’s will belong to the defender”. When I pointed out that this meant that an invader couldn’t deploy directly into these (but must move in to capture them) just about everybody in the DBA community jumped on me and said I was wrong. “Oh” they all said, “it may say that Stevie, but it really means nothing at all”. Then why is it in the bloody rules then! It looks like people don’t want to change a single solitary word of Phil Barker’s rules... ...but they don’t want to play by them either! Some Helpful Downloads can be found here: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And here is the latest Jan 2019 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2019_1st_Quarter
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Post by medievalthomas on Aug 21, 2019 17:58:43 GMT
To say someone is "flanked" is too general - it could mean many things including just having enemies beyond the end of your line. Hard Flank refers to the specific game situation where your are in front edge contact with the side edge of an opponent such that they cannot Recoil. This also counts as an Overlap but is a very specific version.
So Hard Flank is a well defined and very useful term (it just doesn't appear in the rule book forcing us to develop our own vocabulary including the rather unfortunate "Quick Kill" which I used in my first Spearpoint article about DBX (I think).
We have two additional Overlaps to consider - corner to corner and side edge to side edge (friction overlap); one is negated by enemy in front edge contact with the overlapper but one is not (friction overlaps) so its sometimes useful to be able to differentiate them (friction is always mutual while corner is not).
A common set of well defined descriptive terminology would be extremely helpful; its one of the first things I created for Knights & Knaves and makes teaching DBX much easier.
TomT
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Post by bob on Aug 21, 2019 18:52:02 GMT
A Barker marker Is an important term that I forgot, thanks. It is one base width square. 40 mm x 40 mm if you’re playing with small scale figures, 60 mm x 60 mm if you’re playing with larger figures. A handle is a useful addition, but not required :-)
The problem with Jargon terms such as “hard flank” is that the terms are not in the rules, it is not “ well defined,” it is not defined at all, and if new people are reading comments with these jargon terms they get confused.
The use of the word “flank “in the rules is very explicit not just some random position of an enemy element. Do we need to now use the term “hard rear” Indicate contact in the rear? Flank is Defined
“For each enemy element either overlapping or _ in front edge and front corner-to-front corner contact with flank _ or in full front edge contact with rear,”
‘Turning to face a flank or rear contact. Immediately after the movement phase, elements contacted to flank or rear by an enemy front edge turn to face the first enemy element to contact them unless they are already in full front edge contact with another enemy element or providing rear support.”
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Post by primuspilus on Aug 21, 2019 18:53:17 GMT
But Stevie, following your logic on BUAs "belonging" to the defender, the rules also state that we roll die and use an Army's aggression rating to determine whose territory the battle is taking place in. Does that mean that the attacker must deploy in his own territory, perhaps several hundred miles away?
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Post by stevie on Aug 21, 2019 19:59:00 GMT
But Stevie, following your logic on BUAs "belonging" to the defender, the rules also state that we roll die and use an Army's aggression rating to determine whose territory the battle is taking place in. Does that mean that the attacker must deploy in his own territory, perhaps several hundred miles away? Sorry but I don’t understand. The loser of the aggression roll is the defender... The defender uses the terrain of their own home region... The defender chooses and places all the terrain... Therefore, any BUA will be chosen and owned by the defender... And the invader has left his own country to attack the defender. Some Helpful Downloads can be found here: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And here is the latest Jan 2019 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2019_1st_Quarter
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Post by j on Aug 21, 2019 22:43:24 GMT
Hmmm...in my local manor we call someone who bends things a ‘ rule bender’ or ‘ misinterpreter’. For example, the Threat Zone rule on page 9 quite clearly states that the far-edge of a TZ only affects an element’s front-edge...but many players insist on ‘bending’ or ‘misinterpreting’ this rule so that the far-edge of a TZ affects any edge touching it, and they deliberately ignore this front-edge requirement. Likewise, the River rule on page 6 quite clearly states that for movement rivers are neither good nor other going...but many players insist on ‘bending’ or ‘misinterpreting’ this rule and try to apply it to combat, even though it specifically says don’t do this. These are just two examples of not following the rules as they are written, word-for-word. To me and my mates a rule lawyer follows the rules to the letter, exactly as they are printed. On the other hand, I have been caught out by some instances of following the rules as they are written. The very first sentence at the top of page 7 says “BUA’s will belong to the defender”. When I pointed out that this meant that an invader couldn’t deploy directly into these (but must move in to capture them) just about everybody in the DBA community jumped on me and said I was wrong. “Oh” they all said, “it may say that Stevie, but it really means nothing at all”. Then why is it in the bloody rules then! It looks like people don’t want to change a single solitary word of Phil Barker’s rules... ...but they don’t want to play by them either! Some Helpful Downloads can be found here: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And here is the latest Jan 2019 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2019_1st_Quarter
Well, now I'm all confused again  I have previously pointed out the "rule as written" which clearly states it is the front edge that matters, not a side edge or rear edge but have been told that this is not what PB meant. Shame that the “clear & unambiguous” rules are causing problems with interpretation. Maybe the next FAQ update could address this & give a clear & unambiguous ruling on this? Regards, j |
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Post by gregorius on Aug 21, 2019 23:43:27 GMT
There's a term that is used in Australia that signifies a drawn combat without an effect. We call it a "stick", though when I've played against American opponents they tend to use the term "lock". Horses for courses.
Cheers,
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Post by Tony Aguilar on Aug 22, 2019 12:24:21 GMT
The term in the RAW that I have the hardest trouble remembering to use is "pursue" which is REALLY hard to call it that when the element that is pursuing advances after destroying the element in front of it.
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