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Post by j on Jul 7, 2019 14:08:50 GMT
It looks like the Invader gets a free choice (almost) when it comes to choosing which side he will enter the battlefield, unlike in 2.0 where there was only a 50% chance.
Is that correct?
As to things which restrict his choice, I see that if a Road crosses the battlefield he must deploy on a side that it intersects, otherwise he can deploy on any side that is NOT opposite a WW - does that mean he could deploy ON the WW side?
Regards,
j
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Post by primuspilus on Jul 7, 2019 14:50:19 GMT
Yes he can. Take care that the Waterway is not so wide that there isn't enough room to deploy! I build my Waterways a tad narrower for that reason.
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Post by bob on Jul 7, 2019 17:17:45 GMT
Also it’s dangerous to deploy on the side of a waterway when your opponent can make a landing.
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Post by stevie on Jul 8, 2019 9:33:46 GMT
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Post by martin on Jul 8, 2019 11:27:50 GMT
Having the Wwy at your back when facing a littoral opponent is a great way to up your workload, as it invites a littoral landing upon your rear or exposed flank. Adds a handy challenge, and provides hours of fun........
I’d thoroughly recommend choosing to have the waterway at your back if facing me across the two foot board....please....go on......you know you want to.....😊
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Post by stevie on Jul 8, 2019 12:09:35 GMT
Oh I don’t know Martin...the furthest forward you can deploy is 3 BW from the table centre-line. It will take slow moving foot such as Hoplites 3 bounds to cross this to get into contact... ...3 bounds in which the invader can get 6 or more of their elements to surround and destroy the tiny Littoral Landing force of a mere 3 elements, which will soon have their rear touching the waterway and have no room to recoil. As an invader, I’d risk it for a biscuit (especially a Jaffa cake!  ) |
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Post by martin on Jul 8, 2019 17:02:55 GMT
Challenge accepted 😎 🎲🎲🎲
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Post by paddy649 on Jul 9, 2019 19:31:16 GMT
Oh I don’t know Martin...the furthest forward you can deploy is 3 BW from the table centre-line. It will take slow moving foot such as Hoplites 3 bounds to cross this to get into contact... ...3 bounds in which the invader can get 6 or more of their elements to surround and destroy the tiny Littoral Landing force of a mere 3 elements, which will soon have their rear touching the waterway and have no room to recoil. As an invader, I’d risk it for a biscuit (especially a Jaffa cake! ) Yes but: 1 - the Littoral force can fall on your camp almost immediately = 1 VP down. 2 - the WWay can be 3-4 bases deep and so the Littoral force could be 6-7 BW from the table edge or to put that another way deep into your deployment zone and almost at the centre line. So they are 3BW away from support on turn 1 not 6. 3 - Martin's Cav cross the 6BW distance between armies in 2 moves and his LH get BW away in 1 and you can’t attack forces to your rear when TZed to the front. 4 - Your forces are facing the wrong direction and will have to reverse face as single elements to deal with the Littoral force - so you’ll need PIPs....lots of PIPs! 5 - knowing Martin his Littoral force will be packed with blades and tough to kill buying him time to trap you between his elements. 6 - finally where is your General? Is he safe? A Littoral force can work a hard overlap on a General or with the right troop selection can work a QK......and don’t quote PIP shortage because we’ve already established that a deep WWay places the furthest Littoral element 9-10BW away from own front line so it is in Commsnd of even a solid foot General advancing with the first PIP. A mounted General has BW to spare. So I’m with Martin on this one and count me in.......I’ll buy the Jaffa cakes. In fact.....and this is an edit after a glass of wine....if Martin placed a max WWay and you put it at your rear I’m not sure you could deploy all your army legally - especially if it was packed with 40 x 40 elements. Which brings us to the question of what happens if you cannot legally deploy an element? Does it just not get placed or does it count as a casualty? If the latter the I can imagine that there is a series of events that could loose a player the game BEFORE the first round. I’d need to check the geometry and army lists but it is not an impossibility! |
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Post by stevie on Jul 9, 2019 20:24:43 GMT
Yes but, no but, yes but, no but... What is the Littoral plan if the invader deploys in one long line almost touching the waterway? The only place the amphibious force can deploy into is the 2 BW at the far ends of the invader’s line. And what about using Ps/Cv/LH to delay the defender’s advance? Then there’s plopping a Bd in the camp to protect it, which can leave it for 1 PIP in the invader’s 1st bound? Remember, if the situation looks dodgy, then the invader’s doesn’t have to pick the waterway edge. And the defender deploys first, so you only have to count the elements to know a landing is coming. Plus the defender must land in his 1st bound, so the invader can plan ahead (and may even have their own landing). So prepare for it. Now I’m not saying that having a waterway to your back is a sure-fire guaranteed game winner. But I certainly wouldn’t throw my arms in the the air and exclaim “I’ve lost!” just because of a Littoral Landing... |
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Post by paddy649 on Jul 9, 2019 21:15:58 GMT
OK - so the yard long box of Jaffa cakes they sell at Xmas it is then!
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Post by martin on Jul 10, 2019 8:28:13 GMT
> > .....placed a max WWay and you put it at your rear I’m not sure you could deploy all your army legally - especially if it was packed with 40 x 40 elements. Which brings us to the question of what happens if you cannot legally deploy an element? Does it just not get placed or does it count as a casualty? If the latter the I can imagine that there is a series of events that could loose a player the game BEFORE the first round. I’d need to check the geometry and army lists but it is not an impossibility! The “max depth waterway preventing deployment” was noticed and highlighted by menacussecundus /Denis a couple of years back, and certainly IS a possibility. Try getting ‘an all Kn’ army (Sarmatians or African Vandals) or ‘big base element-heavy’ army (Hussites) into the available space, and you’ll see that it’s an issue....especially for those armies with all elements confined to the inner section of deployment (so with no Cv, LH, Ps , Ax etc). There was a long running thread (not sure where/when) on this. Opinions on ‘what happens next’ vary. At the tournaments I have since run, the rule has been that if the invader has inadvertently chosen ‘waterway at rear’ base side, and cannot fully deploy, then he gets to change his choice to one of the ‘waterway on flank’ base lines, and starts again. (my own ‘max waterway battleboard’ has a sticker on the Wwy saying “ this side may prevent deployment’ or somesuch ...) M |
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