Picking on a pike block - but was it legal?

Ok, let's look deeper. The issue whether you believe a second rank Pike, Warband, and Light Horse gives rear support all the time or just when the front rank is in close combat. So let's look at the rule about giving support in close combat. Here is the rule that applies.

"Rear support factors:
These apply when elements have another friendly element of the same type lined-up directly behind them and facing the same direction, and both are in good going.
Pikes add +3 and Warband +1 when in frontal close combat against enemy foot other than Psiloi. Pikes add +1 when in frontal close combat against Knights, Elephants or Scythed Chariots.
Light Horse add +1 when in frontal close combat against any troops.

"These apply" which I think mean rear support factors apply, "when elements have another friendly element of the same type lined-up directly behind them and facing the same direction, and both are in good going."

Then, "when in frontal combat against  enemy foot etc ..."

Clearly these conditions do not apply all the time. just when in frontal combat.

True, Bob.  However, an alternative way of looking at this would be to say that the second rank is always giving rear support, but that the close combat bonus only applies if certain conditions are met. 


And your own definition of when in frontal combat could be further broken down by saying an element (of the same type lined up directly behind etc) is giving rear support (a) whenever the front element is in close combat or (b) only when the front element is in close combat in the circumstances where the bonus applies.  For example, if a pike block is contacted frontally by an element of Psiloi, can the rear element be shot at or not?

So stevie, are you suggesting that an attack from the rear should in no way disadvantage the pike block? I suspect ancient commanders might disagree with that premise...

I'm not sure the diagrams are all that much help here. 


If the Pike in figures 14b and 14c were Sp or Bd, they would still turn to face the Cv even though they are not providing rear support because that is what the rules say elements in a column do if the column is contacted on its flank. But there is nothing in the rules which says that if the rear element of a column is contacted on its rear edge the entire column does an about face.

D

Despite Stevie's encouragement that I may be onto something, having thought about the matter further, I have concluded that, it works better as a game if an element is treated as being in rear support only if the front element is in combat to its front and whether or not the rear support bonus actually applies. If this means my Bw cannot shoot at a rear element which has its back corner in some rough going or at the second element of a pike block in combat with Cv to its front, so be it. That is how I intend to play it (unless the competition umpire rules otherwise).

Going back to the original question, I think the rear element - and only the rear element - turns to face the Kn. What happens in response to the move by the Ax depends on which of the Pk elements it contacts. If it contacts the rear one (front corner to front corner), then when that rear element turns, I think the Ax has to slide to maintain the front corner to front corner contact, although, as the Pk has no room in which to recoil, the Ax could simply line up as an overlap without closing the door. If the Ax contacts the front Pk element (front corner to front corner), then the leading Pk element has to turn to face it and the Ax has to slide to maintain contact - and the element of Pk facing the Kn will still have no room to recoil.

"I’ll just go along with whatever the FAQ Team and/or the DBA community decides. "

Sorry, mate, I won't. In the event of lack of full clarity in the rules, I shall do what is most sensible, playable, practical and consistent. Punishing Alex's phalanx (who were, like it or not, the most effective, consistent and perfromance-repeatable infantry combat system until the Roman Marian legion) , while letting Epaminondas' 50-deep Theban phalanx off scot-free just will never, ever wash with me. Ever. Under any circumstances.

I go with door number 3
"Rear support factors apply when elements have another friendly element of the same type lined-up directly behind them and facing the same direction, and both are in good going... when in frontal close combat against enemy."

There is no indication that I can find in the rules that two light horse in column are to be treated as a double based element. No complicated solutions for me, I prefer Occam's razor approach. If all the conditions listed in the rules for rear support are not present, then rear support is not present. There are just two elements in column.