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Post by j on Mar 28, 2019 22:01:19 GMT
First 3.0 game coming up with my Later Achaemenid Persians vs his Alexandrian Macedonians (he always goes for the macho armies...)
Any advice on how to take on his Pike blocks?
Regards,
j
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Post by lkmjbc on Mar 28, 2019 23:47:46 GMT
Sure...
Rough terrain is your friend. Make sure you have your bow in groups of three firing. Use Psiloi to slow part of his advance. Try to break up his Pike blocks. Threaten their flank.
Maximize the number if turns you shoot
Joe Collins
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Post by lkmjbc on Mar 28, 2019 23:57:24 GMT
Sorry...I read EAP.
For LAP.
Err... scythed chariots and Zoroastrian prayer.
Joe Collins
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Post by stevie on Mar 29, 2019 0:15:32 GMT
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Post by greedo on Mar 29, 2019 2:27:30 GMT
I agree with above. As a very inexperienced player, Ps can’t die against Pk unless they get overlapped side to side (not corner to corner) but there’s only a 1/36 chance of pushing pk back, but you never know... and sc ch quick kill a lot of things and they don’t count when killed.. |
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Post by Baldie on Mar 29, 2019 4:14:36 GMT
bribe them
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Post by paddy649 on Mar 29, 2019 7:49:02 GMT
First 3.0 game coming up with my Later Achaemenid Persians vs his Alexandrian Macedonians (he always goes for the macho armies...) Any advice on how to take on his Pike blocks? Regards, j My advice - kill Alexander! |
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Post by j on Mar 29, 2019 13:02:44 GMT
Thanks everyone. All sound advice except as far as I can see in 3.0 II/7 has no Bw & only 1-2 Ps or am I missing something?
Guess my best bet is to maximise Kn (that's 2 elements) & take the SCh as both QK Pk.
Not sure whether I should take the 3 x Mercenary Hoplites or the 4Ax Kardakes/3Ax Takabara.
I've not had any experience of the differences between the 3 & 4Ax options.
As for the Horde, is it worth it or would the 2nd Ps be better for slowing the Pike blocks down?
Regards,
j
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Post by stevie on Mar 29, 2019 14:27:17 GMT
I know what I would do...don’t fight the Pikes!  Just delay against them and concentrate on destroying their weaker support troops. Remember, Pk have a combat factor of 3 against foot and 4 against mounted, with a +1 for rear support only against Kn and SCh. The Ps are CF 2 v Pk CF 3...and cannot be destroyed by them, but flee if doubled by Pk. And LH are CF 2 v Pk CF 4...and cannot be destroyed by them, but flee if doubled by Pk. And Cv are CF 3 v Pk CF 4 ...and cannot be destroyed by them, but flee if doubled by Pk. And Sp are CF 5 v Pk CF 3+3...assuming that the Sp have their +1 for side-support. Use these to keep the Pikes busy... ...and use your Persian mounted to smash the remaining 6 Macedonian elements. Or, if these are hiding in hindering terrain, by-pass them and envelop the Pike columns. Some Helpful Downloads can be found here: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And here is the latest Jan 2019 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2019_1st_Quarter
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Post by paddy649 on Mar 29, 2019 15:30:49 GMT
I know what I would do...don’t fight the Pikes! Just delay against them and concentrate on destroying their weaker support troops. Remember, Pk have a combat factor of 3 against foot and 4 against mounted, with a +1 for rear support only against Kn and SCh. The Ps are CF 2 v Pk CF 3...and cannot be destroyed by them, but flee if doubled by Pk. And LH are CF 2 v Pk CF 4...and cannot be destroyed by them, but flee if doubled by Pk. And Cv are CF 3 v Pk CF 4 ...and cannot be destroyed by them, but flee if doubled by Pk. And Sp are CF 5 v Pk CF 3+3...assuming that the Sp have their +1 for side-support. Use these to keep the Pikes busy... ...and use your Persian mounted to smash the remaining 6 Macedonian elements. Or, if these are hiding in hindering terrain, by-pass them and envelop the Pike columns. Some Helpful Downloads can be found here: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And here is the latest Jan 2019 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2019_1st_Quarter
OK! What he said.....then kill Alexander. I remember a thread on the utility of SCh - you may want to read that. Sure they QK pike but unsupported they die quickly so need supporting and then blow a hole in you line when they loose....that is if the Art doesn’t kill them first. |
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Post by paulhannah on Mar 29, 2019 15:37:17 GMT
...scythed chariots and Zoroastrian prayer. And if that fails, cheat! (Grins.) It is a difficult match-up. Out of curiousity, I looked up LAP's record against Big Al (II/12 & II/15) in the COMPENDIVM. Not as bad as I had thought. They're 29-36 against Big Al, here in the Greater NAGS Empire. But, don't worry about winning and losing, just have fun as you start getting accustomed to the myriad (and mostly wonderful) changes in V-3. |
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Post by greedo on Mar 29, 2019 16:24:21 GMT
I think a big tactic (as has been stated), is not necessarily to WIN against the main block of heavies, but to not LOSE to them, and focus your energy on his weaker areas. Remember, that's he invested 6 elements = 1/2 his entire army on a 3 element wide front. That means that he has to cover the rest of the board with a mere 6 elements. And if you focus YOUR energies on those, and tangle up the pikes, then you can crush him that way. You have a big advantage in Cav, although he does have his Kn+Alex, which is something else to counter somehow..
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Post by lkmjbc on Mar 29, 2019 16:35:50 GMT
Nope... no archers...
I just misread your post. My advice was for Early Ach. Persians... not later.
Joe Collins
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Post by paddy649 on Mar 29, 2019 16:49:21 GMT
...scythed chariots and Zoroastrian prayer. And if that fails, cheat! (Grins.) It is a difficult match-up. Out of curiousity, I looked up LAP's record against Big Al (II/12 & II/15) in the COMPENDIVM. Not as bad as I had thought. They're 29-36 against Big Al, here in the Greater NAGS Empire. But, don't worry about winning and losing, just have fun as you start getting accustomed to the myriad (and mostly wonderful) changes in V-3. 29-36 Wow! I’d have thought it would have been 70-30 the other way round! Suppose it depends on the army choice plus II/15 seems a tougher nut than II/12. |
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Post by greedo on Mar 29, 2019 23:31:40 GMT
Bouncing off the "defeating Pike Blocks" thread, I thought about this from my last tourney.
Because of the 4/2 BW deployment restrictions with the 24" board (~15BW wide), a lot of infantry armies deploy something like this:
Assume a spearwall type army.
Assume no terrain.
_____[ENEMY]____
PsSpSpSpSpSpSpPs
__Sp________Sp__
__Sp________Sp__
On a roll of > 1 PIP, the player then moves their Spears to this (it'll take about 2+ bounds):
_____[ENEMY]____
PsSpSpSpSpSpSpSpSpSpSpPs
A wall of Spears which LH and Cv will bounce off.
My only tactic was to run a pair of LH around the spears before they closed the door, although I learned this later on, and did it vs a fast blade/fast bw army which was able to react to the LH easily.
How do other people with non shieldwall armies deal with this?
Note: it's very different from a pike block, because the pike block will be 3 elements wide only (assuming 6 pikes).
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