Mutual Destruction in one turn

eg407
Beneficiarii

Posts: 98

Mutual Destruction in one turn Dec 11, 2018 21:18:40 GMT via mobile

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Post by eg407 on Dec 11, 2018 21:18:40 GMT

Hi all,

We've just had a game and we couldn't find what happens in the rules when we had a look. So the thought was to ask the experts!

The game involved two armies of unequal size. One of 12 elements and one of 8 elements. Going into the turn in question, the 12 element army had lost 3 elements and the 8 element army had lost 2 elements.

In the final turn, the 12 element army lost 1 element and the 8 element army lost 2 elements. So at the end of the turn both armies were broken! It was decided to call the game as a draw for campaign purposes, and finish there. We had a short time to play another game.

But the question is what should the outcome actually be?

In combat order the 8 element army was broken before the 12 element army, if that makes a difference!

Thanks!
EG

Last Edit: Dec 11, 2018 21:19:31 GMT by eg407

primuspilus Tribune Posts: 772	Mutual Destruction in one turn Dec 11, 2018 21:32:35 GMT via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by primuspilus on Dec 11, 2018 21:32:35 GMT The victory conditions are two-fold: the loser must, at the END of a bound, have lost at least one third of the army AND more elements than the opponent. Sorry, mate, the battle goes on, as per the rules.
	Last Edit: Dec 11, 2018 21:32:56 GMT by primuspilus Declaring a War on Terror in response to 9/11 is like declaring a War on Torpedo Bombing in response to Pearl Harbour...

bob
Tribune

Posts: 789

Mutual Destruction in one turn Dec 12, 2018 1:04:16 GMT

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Post by bob on Dec 12, 2018 1:04:16 GMT

The actual rules are : "The first side that at the end of any bound has now lost a total of 4 elements not including Scythed Chariots, Hordes, camp followers or denizens and has also lost more such elements than the enemy, has lost the battle"

primuspilus speaking of the official rules for tournament play, which would have equal 12 element armies. If you are doing a campaign or some local variation, then you need to specify what constitutes a loss in advance of play. The crucial point that primuspilus makes is that the game continues until the end of a bound. It could be argued that the 12 element army has lost 4 elements and more than the opponent, so has lost. The rules do not say 1/3 but 4. That is why you must make up your victory conditions.

eg407 Beneficiarii Posts: 98	Mutual Destruction in one turn Dec 12, 2018 7:41:11 GMT via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by eg407 on Dec 12, 2018 7:41:11 GMT Thanks both! That makes it much clearer! I'll make sure to amend the campaign rules accordingly! This is the first time we've had this problem, despite playing a reasonable amount over the past two years!

medievalthomas
Tribune

Posts: 879

Mutual Destruction in one turn Dec 13, 2018 22:39:51 GMT

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Post by medievalthomas on Dec 13, 2018 22:39:51 GMT

Unless playing in a tournament use this rule:

An Army breaks when the number of elements in the Destroyed "pile" equals the number on the table (in other words you have to have more "living" elements than destroyed).

This helps armies last longer and gives a better battle. It works for armies with uneven numbers of elements.

TomT

Post by eg407 on Dec 11, 2018 21:18:40 GMT

Post by primuspilus on Dec 11, 2018 21:32:35 GMT

Post by bob on Dec 12, 2018 1:04:16 GMT

Post by eg407 on Dec 12, 2018 7:41:11 GMT

Post by medievalthomas on Dec 13, 2018 22:39:51 GMT