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Post by j2klbs on Aug 24, 2018 15:04:08 GMT
I'm working on a chart (fun math exercise). It's probably already been done, but it helps my learning process.
What is the maximum and minimum modifier to a combat roll possible? Is it ...
-3 = LH in bad going in contact on both flanks and rear
+9 = Blade General garrisoning a city/fort
And could you have said General fighting wretched LH? [Update: just checked rules, LH would not count as being in bad going vs. garrison per rules, so I think the worst matchup possible is +9 vs. -1.]
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Post by ammianus on Aug 24, 2018 16:08:48 GMT
Fun, math; not sure how those two tings go together. ;-)
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Post by bob on Aug 24, 2018 18:04:51 GMT
Isn't a Blade General +6 vs foot, as garrison add +4.
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Post by davidjconstable on Aug 24, 2018 18:21:15 GMT
If I understand your question correctly then my guess would be as follows:
+4 garrisoning, +1 general = +5
-1 each flank and rear is -3, -2 bad terrain = -5.
The highest factor is blade verses foot 5 + 5 = +10.
The lowest factor is LH in bad going 2 - 5 = -3.
David Constable
P.S. - had a horrible thought. What if you had Ps in bad going attacking a city or fort with enemy on flank and rear then 2-3 = 0 verses blade general garrison = +10. |
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Post by stevie on Aug 24, 2018 20:00:51 GMT
Don’t forget the page 7 paragraph 1 rule:- “Occupiers of a BUA beside any but a paltry river count as defending the bank against enemy elements assaulting it and still in the river.” So the maximum defence is +4 for the walls, +1 for the General, and +1 for the river bank bonus, making a total of +6 (ouch!) to be added to the normal foot combat factor (so a max of 11 for defending blades). And don’t forget page 10 paragraph 9:- “Troops assaulting or defending these (walls) use their combat factor against foot and do not count overlaps or flank or rear support.” This means no +1 for double-based elements, as that is a type of rear support (see page 11 paragraph 1). J2klbs, if you’re interested in combat charts, then have a look at this:- fanaticus.boards.net/post/9701/...it might give you some ideas and shows who does what to who.  Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018
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Post by j2klbs on Aug 24, 2018 20:39:16 GMT
LOL! Thanks guys! That poor LH!  I think the Ps is not in as bad of shape as the LH since they wouldn't trigger the -2 for bad going. Stevie - that's an interesting quote - I think when attacking the garrisoned general, based on the rule you quoted, if the LH were double flanked and rear engaged, it would ignore the -3 modifier? For usability of the chart, I am eliminating the numbers at the extremes (i.e. 9+, <0) because they are unlikely to ever come up in actual game play. I'll post a link to my spreadsheet when I'm done. It will show slightly different data than the one mentioned. |
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Post by stevie on Aug 24, 2018 21:03:02 GMT
Stevie - that's an interesting quote - I think when attacking the garrisoned general, based on the rule you quoted, if the LH were double flanked and rear engaged, it would ignore the -3 modifier? Remember that there is a difference between being ‘ overlapped’ and being ‘ attacked in the side’ by having an enemy front-edge in contact with your flank-edge (see diagram 9a on page 20). Overlaps don’t count when assaulting a City, Fort, or Camp...but flank attacks still do. And I’m looking forward to seeing your completed combat chart.  Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018
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Post by bob on Aug 25, 2018 17:24:31 GMT
Stevie, I do not understand what you mean that flank attacks count when assaulting a C/F/C? "Close combat against a city, fort or camp:
Troops assaulting or defending these use their combat factor against foot and do not count overlaps or flank or rear support."
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Post by stevie on Aug 25, 2018 21:28:12 GMT
Ah...Just me using simplistic language Bob. Imagine say a Cv element for instance is assaulting a City/Fort/Camp, but it gets an equal score. It will stay in front-edge contact, and next bound could be charged in the flank or rear by some other enemy element coming to help the defenders of the BUA/Camp. Like all troops attacked in the flank, it will suffer a -1 CF penalty as it tries to storm the walls, and be destroyed if forced to recoil. Use of too many "or" words in "...and do not count overlaps or flank or rear support" might cause confusion. What is meant is "...and do not count overlaps or flank/rear support." Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018
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Post by bob on Aug 26, 2018 2:41:01 GMT
In that situation, an overlap could count against the attacker. Cavalry in contact with city in city player's bound. That player can slide an element into the side edge to edge contact with the cavalry, and claim overlap. Cav1 faces up attacking the City, Blade facing down slides in to overlap the Cavalry.
CITYCITY
Cav1
BdCav1
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Post by davidjconstable on Aug 26, 2018 5:08:39 GMT
Hello Stevie and Bob
The queries on this are an example of what I was told on my first day at work, 1964 AD.
We were given a key to bleed air out of radiators (central heating type) and to keep it with us always, one is still on my key-chain.
Secondly, everything has a place, and everything in its place, this referred to paperwork and filling.
Now I for one hate the fact that you need to look through the rules, diagrams etc. to find information out about tactical factors, it might save a few lines, but it adds hours in complication.
Sorry but my pet hate about all versions of DBA, and most rules.
David Constable
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Post by stevie on Aug 26, 2018 8:57:03 GMT
Me too David...that’s why I wrote those Crib Sheets, in order to consolidate together various scattered rules. (see fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/File:DETAILED_CRIB_SHEETS_for_DBA_3.0.pdf ) But things can still be misinterpreted. For example, from what you wrote it sounds like you are still carrying around that air you bled out of the radiators all those years ago, and intend to “keep it with you always”.  And yes, quite right Bob. In case I may have confused things, let’s see if I can clarify it a bit. There are three different types of overlap:- a) corner-to-corner overlaps (as shown in figure 16c) b) mutual side-edge contact overlaps (also shown in figure 16c) c) and phantom table-edge overlaps (as shown in figure 17) Psiloi and Scythed Chariots ignore (a), but are still affected by (b) and (c). Troops assaulting or defending a City, Fort, or Camp ignore all three types of overlap. But there is only one type of friendly front-edge to enemy flank-edge attack (see figure 19c), and this cannot be ignored. (oops!...there was an error, now corrected)Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018
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I think the Ps is not in as bad of shape as the LH since they wouldn't trigger the -2 for bad going. 
