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Post by bob on Jun 23, 2018 19:20:09 GMT
I was noticing the rules about terrain placement.
"The defending player chooses and places 1-2 compulsory and 2-3 optional features from those permitted. Those chosen must include BAD or ROUGH GOING (as defined below) or a River or Waterway, and cannot include more than 1 each of Waterway, River, Oasis, Gully or BUA, or 2 roads, or 3 each of any other feature type."
So if an arable army player picks two plough, then he cannot take 3 gentle hills, or a Road and an extra Plough because none of those is Rough or Bad going. If he picks a Hamlet or an Edifice he included a Bad or Rough going so can pick all good going optional terrain.
However, what if he picks a City or a Fort. What kind of going are these? I cannot find it. Can someone point out to me where the going of a City or Fort is given. If I pick a City or Fort, must at least one of the optional features be rough or bad going?
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Post by martin on Jun 24, 2018 7:26:14 GMT
I was noticing the rules about terrain placement. "The defending player chooses and places 1-2 compulsory and 2-3 optional features from those permitted. Those chosen must include BAD or ROUGH GOING (as defined below) or a River or Waterway, and cannot include more than 1 each of Waterway, River, Oasis, Gully or BUA, or 2 roads, or 3 each of any other feature type." So if an arable army player picks two plough, then he cannot take 3 gentle hills, or a Road and an extra Plough because none of those is Rough or Bad going. If he picks a Hamlet or an Edifice he included a Bad or Rough going so can pick all good going optional terrain. However, what if he picks a City or a Fort. What kind of going are these? I cannot find it. Can someone point out to me where the going of a City or Fort is given. If I pick a City or Fort, must at least one of the optional features be rough or bad going? I think the terrain chooser will have to pick some RG/BG/a river/a waterway to be 'legal', Bob. A skinny WWy is the least intrusive item (unless your opponent is littoral). M |
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Post by stevie on Jun 24, 2018 10:21:41 GMT
Just following on from what Martin said, I think that you answered your own question yourself Bob when you quoted:- “...as defined below...” The terrain types in page 6 paragraph 7 does not mention Forts and Cities as being Rough or Bad Going...so they are not. Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018
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Post by scottrussell on Jun 24, 2018 10:31:36 GMT
Stevie,
My impression too. City and Fort are not listed in the BAD or ROUGH going lists, so they do not count as such. Admittedly they aren't listed in the GOOD going lists either, but I don't think this is relevant to the discussion.
Scott
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Post by primuspilus on Jun 24, 2018 11:21:03 GMT
Rivers are another terrain type that is not bad, rough, nor good going.
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Post by stevie on Jun 24, 2018 11:44:59 GMT
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Post by martin on Jun 24, 2018 15:21:33 GMT
Rivers are another terrain type that is not bad, rough, nor good going. Indeed. In Bob's original Q he asked whether the city/fort satisfies the requirements for certain terrain when choosing before placement. A river ticks the 'must have A/B/C/D' as part of the terrain selected, though it is not rough or bad. M |
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Post by primuspilus on Jun 24, 2018 18:59:25 GMT
Stevie, show me where it says a river is a form of "going"...
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Post by stevie on Jun 24, 2018 21:50:05 GMT
It doesn’t Primuspilus...but it is a type of going, a special type, different from all the rest. Page 6 paragraph 10 says “ For movement, a river is neither good nor other going...” meaning for movement, and movement only, and says nothing about any effect on combat (fleeing into a river will destroy you, but that is not combat, that’s a combat outcome). So I’m agreeing with you: there is actually not three but four types of terrain:- Good Going (which has no effect on speed, on group movement, or on combat). Rough Going (which slows some troops, no effect on group movement, but does affect support and some combat outcomes). Bad Going (which slows some troops, affects groups, stops support, affects some combat outcomes, and most suffer a -2 CF). Then there are Rivers (which slows all troops, sometimes affects groups, but does not affect support or combat in any way). Four types of terrain...all with different effects on play. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- By the way Bob, here is another little wrinkle you might like to consider. Page 7 paragraph 6 says “ (An Edifice) is treated as Bad Going, except when it is used as a Camp.” So Edifice Camps are not Bad Going (although if sacked/captured/destroyed they become Bad Going: see the FAQ). Therefore, Edifice Camps do not fulfill the requirements of page 6 paragraph 3 which states that there must be some Rough, Bad Going, River or Waterway on the table, but an ordinary edifice does. Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018
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Post by primuspilus on Jun 25, 2018 3:45:18 GMT
Sorry, Stevie. Rivers are not "going". Neither are waterways. They are terrain features. They are not going.
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Post by stevie on Jun 25, 2018 7:23:21 GMT
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Post by bob on Jun 25, 2018 19:22:28 GMT
The rules state that a River is not any going for movement. There are three types of going, shown in capital letters at top of page 6: GOOD, ROUGH, and BAD. A river is none of these "For movement, a river is neither good nor other going..." There is no explicit statement for what river is in combat. It just has certain effects. Elements partly in a river, even paltry, cannot shoot. There is no penalty for elements both in river fighting. There is a penalty for element in river fighting element on bank, except if paltry river. Fleers are destroyed if entering.
There is no other name for a river.
Back to my original question: Is a City or a Fort any type of going?
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Post by jim1973 on Jun 25, 2018 19:34:49 GMT
Back to my original question: Is a City or a Fort any type of going? No. In my humble opinion. Jim |
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Post by lkmjbc on Jun 25, 2018 19:49:22 GMT
No one knows. Why does it matter?
Terrain listed as Bad Going or Rough are ...well...listed.
BUAs aren't in the list.
I can't think of an instance where this matters.
Joe Collins
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Post by stevie on Jun 25, 2018 22:50:59 GMT
The rules state that a River is not any going for movement. There are three types of going, shown in capital letters at top of page 6: GOOD, ROUGH, and BAD. A river is none of these "For movement, a river is neither good nor other going..." There is no explicit statement for what river is in combat. It just has certain effects. Elements partly in a river, even paltry, cannot shoot. There is no penalty for elements both in river fighting. There is a penalty for element in river fighting element on bank, except if paltry river. Fleers are destroyed if entering. There is no other name for a river. Fair enough Bob...I’ll go along with that. So three different types of going plus rivers (in other words, four different types of terrain, all with different effects). “A difference that makes no difference is no difference...” (Mr Spock of the Starship Enterprise)  However, I think you may be missing one important point... ...can troops in a river claim side and rear support or not? I think they should, otherwise it's impossible for pikes and spears to fight their way across any type of river (like the ancient historians said the Macedonians did at the battles of Granicus and Issus) when faced by side-supported spearmen or blades. This would make DBA 3 rivers as unplayable as they were in DBA 2 & 2.2. (It's bad enough that Auxiliaries are so weak that Hannibal ends up losing the battle of Cannae...let's not rob Alexander the Great of two of his famous victories as well!)Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018
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