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Post by martini on Mar 20, 2018 20:18:09 GMT
If two bow or crossbow elements are arranged one directly behind the other - i.e. so that one is directly to the rear of the other with the front edge of the rear element in contact with the rear edge of the front element - can the rear element aid the shooting of the front element? I have a feeling that this is not allowed but am struggling to find the rule which prevents it.
Steve
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Post by menacussecundus on Mar 20, 2018 22:33:12 GMT
Steve,
No. "Shooting is blocked if uncrossed lines joining the ends of the shooting and the target edges have part of any element in between them" (page 10, second paragraph, final sentence.) In your example, the front element blocks the shooting of the rear element.
Denis
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Post by Antigonos on Mar 21, 2018 9:51:58 GMT
This is the one rule that's always bugged me - archers cannot engage in indirect fire, always require clear 'line of site' to their target. I'm sure no archer in history ever shot over the heads of troops standing immediately in front of them in order to soften up enemies prior to contact?
After all when DBR v 2.0 says on page 19 ' If using normal scale, Shot, Bow and Pistols (I) elements can shoot from behind 1 fully contiguous friendly element of the same type and grade at the front element's target. If using condensed scale, they cannot shoot from behind.' OK there are factors in there which don't apply to DBA but I fail to see the logic in the action being permissable under one rule set but not under another. Especially when the rules are produced by the same people.
I overcome this by using my own house rule.
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Post by martin on Mar 21, 2018 11:09:49 GMT
How about scale? In DBA a Bw element is 1/12 of the army, and would likely represent ‘x’ wide by maybe 8-10 ranks. The rearmost archers in the element block are already shooting over intervening friends (within the element itself), and probably struggling to guess at the angle they should shoot at. Add an element behind, and we have the rearmost of that one some 16 ranks back, with not a clue on where he’s shooting. Maybe think of it as like DBR condensed scale.....?
To me the single element shooting makes sense in the scale DBA seems to represent.
Martin
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Post by lkmjbc on Mar 21, 2018 14:45:49 GMT
DBA 3.0 shares many ideas and concepts with DBR Condensed scale.
One needs to go to a lower scale game like DBMM or DBR normal scale to find shooting from behind.
Joe Collins
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Post by medievalthomas on Mar 21, 2018 18:12:39 GMT
As many have mentioned its the scale - the back rank overhead shooting archers are already included. But wait you say in the larger versions back rank bows give a +1 or some similar mod so that Bow shooting is typically +3 or something - so how do we get around this? Well we don't.
Double ranked elements some what deal with crossbows behind spears but in a rather clumsy way.
Have not had the courage to do a general +1 for Rear Support from any w/Bow v. Mounted rule. I've found that just including "Shooters" from HOTT solves most of the missile issues with DBA.
TomT
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Post by Antigonos on Mar 21, 2018 19:54:41 GMT
Well, not all problems have a single solution, just a matter of finding which one suits one best  |
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Post by martin on Mar 22, 2018 3:13:58 GMT
Well, not all problems have a single solution, just a matter of finding which one suits one best Absolutely 👍👍👍 |
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Post by medievalthomas on Mar 22, 2018 16:05:13 GMT
Here's a fairly complete solution (just using DBAish techniques):
Longbows/powerful bows = Shooters +3 v. Foot but +4 v. Mounted.
"lesser" bows/light crossbows = Bows
Heavy Crossbows/Pavisers: +3 v. Foot but +4 v. Mounted - shoot only in own bound.
This replicates the abilities of most medieval missile troops but with a minimum of fuss and bother (and new rules) but a satisfying diversity.
TomT
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