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Post by lkmjbc on May 1, 2018 16:15:27 GMT
Mark...
Yes, the FAQ is correct. Tom in fact is a member of the FAQ team.
I believe Tom's comments were in reference to contacting the corner of the contacted player... though my memory is hazy.
Your logic on our answer is correct. Moving groups with some odd exceptions must contact with their front edge...not their corner.
Hope this helps...
Joe Collins
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Post by medievalthomas on May 1, 2018 18:17:32 GMT
To initiate the who conforms question the moving group/element must make contact with its Front Edge to ANY part of an opponent. The mover cannot just contact with its front corner. See (all important) Diagram 13d where mover contacts opponents corner with movers front edge (just barely) -forcing the who conforms question.
Primus: a single Stand must conform to a Group in Knights and Knaves just as in modern DBX. I have been a stalwart advocate of this concept in DBX for many years and lobbied hard to get it into DBA. (In general the conforming rules are identical - in order to make transition to DBA 3.0 tournaments easy).
TomT
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Post by greedo on May 1, 2018 18:20:50 GMT
Thank you, I get it! And If we have similar situation but the A-B group contact the rear corner of the Warband C. Will the Warband be forced to conform (by turning around, ect)? ![]()  Zendor: What program are you using to generate these diagrams? Looks nice  Chris |
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Post by stevie on May 1, 2018 21:28:59 GMT
To initiate the who conforms question the moving group/element must make contact with its Front Edge to ANY part of an opponent. The mover cannot just contact with its front corner. TomT Thanks for clearing that up for us Joe and Tom. Soooo...only the mover’s front-edge contacting any enemy edge or corner triggers conforming, and not the mover’s front-corner. Got it. Because the FAQ talks about rear contact, I got the impression that the rear was treated differently...but that’s just me not reading and understanding it fully. (I’ll have to update that “Conforming Flowchart” of mine.
Easily done - just needs a couple of words added)Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018
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Post by sheffmark on May 2, 2018 8:24:29 GMT
Thanks guys.
As Stevie says "only the mover’s front-edge contacting any enemy edge or corner triggers conforming, and not the mover’s front-corner.
Got it."
So, just to check, in fig 13d, if the only blade there was X and the maximum move the spear group could make put them in corner to corner contact, the move wouldn't be allowed and there would be no conforming. If however the Sp could slide slightly to the left to hit the Blades corner with their front edge then the move would be allowed and the blade would have to conform, is that correct?
My only remaining query is about the later part of the first answer in the FAQ's where it seems to imply that in certain circumstances a front corner can count as a legal contact:
"To force the Cav to conform you must contact it with your front edge in most cases... not your corner. The only exception is when contact is prevented by part-element spacing between enemy elements or physically blocked by elements, terrain or a table edge.
Going back to the situation we faced at the Northern Cup, the only reason the Cv group couldn't contact the Ps normally was because most of it was in bad going and the Cv didn't have the move (and didn't want) to enter. Would that have counted as being blocked by the terrain?
I suspect not, but am struggling to think of a situation where this might occur?
Thanks again for the help.
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Post by menacussecundus on May 2, 2018 10:01:07 GMT
Until now, I have been taking "physically blocked by....terrain" to mean terrain which the element is incapable of entering, of which there is very little (Waterways and perhaps rivers if the element would have to go in sideways on in order to contact the enemy element.)
However, if "physically blocked" includes not having a long enough move, it might make more sense and apply rather more widely. In that case, in the situation which arose in the Northern Cup, the Cv group's movement would have counted as being blocked by the terrain.
Menacus S
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Post by stevie on May 2, 2018 12:03:58 GMT
Hmmm...I think you have to be careful about the causes of being “physically blocked” Menacussecundus. If you simply say “it’s terrain what does it” you could end up with situations where moving Cv can claim to be physically blocked by terrain (causing the stationary enemy to conform instead), whereas moving 3Ax or 3Bd in exactly the same situation (who can move at full speed through such terrain) cannot make the same claim, and so do have to conform. I think it’s far better to say “if it’s your duty to conform, but you don’t have enough movement to do so, then you can’t make contact”. So it’s not the terrain itself that is the cause, but the lack of movement caused by the hindering terrain. (You’ll just have to move closer for this bound and make contact in the next bound) Only if it is completely impossible to conform, due to impassible terrain or a lack of space, even though you have plenty of movement left, should the "physically blocked" in page 9 paragraph 10 be invoked...as shown in figure 13c and the infamous figure 13d. (Later Edit: added the words "physically blocked" in blue to clarify things)Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018
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Post by stevie on May 2, 2018 12:40:22 GMT
My only remaining query is about the later part of the first answer in the FAQ's where it seems to imply that in certain circumstances a front corner can count as a legal contact: "To force the Cav to conform you must contact it with your front edge in most cases... not your corner. The only exception is when contact is prevented by part-element spacing between enemy elements or physically blocked by elements, terrain or a table edge. ...I am struggling to think of a situation where this might occur? Thanks again for the help. I can think of such a situation Sheffmark. See fanaticus.boards.net/post/8186/ and look at the third picture at the bottom of the page. Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018
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Post by lkmjbc on May 2, 2018 17:37:24 GMT
Lack of movement doesn't count.
Several odd configurations can result in a group not being able to contact with a front edge...thus we inserted the exception.
Joe Collins
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Post by sheffmark on May 3, 2018 6:05:53 GMT
Ok thanks for the clarifications
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Post by trikak on May 3, 2018 8:54:10 GMT
All very helpful will hopefully remember next time this happens
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Post by medievalthomas on May 3, 2018 21:07:09 GMT
Thanks guys. As Stevie says "only the mover’s front-edge contacting any enemy edge or corner triggers conforming, and not the mover’s front-corner. Got it." So, just to check, in fig 13d, if the only blade there was X and the maximum move the spear group could make put them in corner to corner contact, the move wouldn't be allowed and there would be no conforming. If however the Sp could slide slightly to the left to hit the Blades corner with their front edge then the move would be allowed and the blade would have to conform, is that correct? Tom says: this is correct, its kind of a stupid MM thing but that's how it got written up (we probably should just have said anything but corner to corner contact counts). My only remaining query is about the later part of the first answer in the FAQ's where it seems to imply that in certain circumstances a front corner can count as a legal contact: "To force the Cav to conform you must contact it with your front edge in most cases... not your corner. The only exception is when contact is prevented by part-element spacing between enemy elements or physically blocked by elements, terrain or a table edge. Tom says: I'm not to sure about this last exception - it essentially blows up the whole rule. I'd have to see a specific example of why this is needed. Going back to the situation we faced at the Northern Cup, the only reason the Cv group couldn't contact the Ps normally was because most of it was in bad going and the Cv didn't have the move (and didn't want) to enter. Would that have counted as being blocked by the terrain? I suspect not, but am struggling to think of a situation where this might occur? Thanks again for the help. |
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Post by zendor on Jun 17, 2018 7:53:03 GMT
Zendor: What program are you using to generate these diagrams? Looks nice Chris Chris, sorry for the late response, I just did not visit the forum for a while... I use Lible Office suite and a Draw app in it. It is free, you can get it here: libreoffice.orgDraw app is already included in this suite. |
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