Basics of groups conforming.

If the C were in combat... the move is canceled. 

I think you've got it.

Joe Collins

I know we covered some of this stuff before but obviously people are still having trouble on what constitutes contact that triggers the conforming rules. (And no wonder given the state of some of the rules - you need to study the diagrams which contain many unspoken but important concepts). I got the FAQ committee to look at at least some of this stuff and make some rulings and for a committee did not hash it up too badly.

First what triggers the who conforms question: Front edge contact by the moving element with any part of the non-moving element. (But not just corner to corner contact). If this occurs you need to address the second question: who conforms? Generally the moving elements but with 2 big exceptions: 1) Group contacting single element entirely in Good Going AND 2) situations where the moving element/Group CANNOT conform. Under these two circumstances the non-mover must now conform (but not fully conform by turning to face if this is needed until end of turn). See Diagrams 13a-d.

I think its much better practice to require the moving elements (if normally required to conform) to conform as much as possible and then have the non-movers finish conforming but this is not generally accepted by the FAQ committee so got tabled.

So in order: contact then STOP and determine who must conform then conform (except turning to face) and finally at end of movement turn to face (if needed).

As you may have guessed we play a lot (just had a full Sunday of Battle for the Throne) and often with new people who need stuff explained (and have no assumptions about how the rules work). So this stuff comes up all the time and this is how I've learned to hack through it.

TomT

Yes. UNLESS the moving group can not conform due to obstructions not just lack of MA, then the non-movers still have to conform even if it would have been impossible (due to lack of MA) for the original movers to conform.  See the earlier thread re Diagram 13.

This is one of the many reasons why I favor forcing the moving group to conform as much as possible before forcing the non-movers to finish conforming.  (Though I strongly suspect I'm going to lose this debate amongest the FAQ committee due to - I suspect - an inadvertent and badly worded sentence in the rules.  Saving grace is that the "must conform as much as possible" is the rule in Knights and Knaves - can't do anything about D3H2 as I'm stuck with "official" rules there).

While on the topic of "illegal contact" (and bear in mind that there is no such thing as real world illegal contact "You can't strike with that sword sir as you have made an illegal contact" its just a game concept), here are two more vexing questions:  can you make corner to corner contact (only) and can you make side to side contact with unengaged opponents.

Keep in mind that neither of these triggers conforming - that's clear - but are they entirely illegal?

TomT

Tom, who judges (and how) when I have in fact conformed as much as possible? Do you mean by the shortest route? Fewest PIPs? How is the amount of conforming that has taken place, supposed to be measured?

So a single Psiloi, in your rules, can hold up the advance of a Pike phalanx, due to being canted at an awkward angle? Or is it only applying to conforming to enemy groups?

Maybe the easiest way to judge whether someone has conformed as much as they physically can is to let their opponent have a try.
Perhaps if one party (no matter who) can get the elements into a closer conforming position, then that should apply.
(See fanaticus.boards.net/post/8345/ )



Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018

Sorry to come back to this again folks, but it seems there is still a bit of confusion, (at least in my mind).

On the 8th March Medievalthomas said:

" First thing we clarified is that a front corner contact counts as a front contact (so triggers immediate conforming)."

I would presume this applies for both the contacting and contacted elements?

However in the FAQ's there is this:
Q: I am moving a line of Spears as a group. I can just barely contact the rear of a single enemy Cav element in good going with the corner of my Spear line. Does it have to conform?

A: No. You must stop short. To force the Cav to conform you must contact it with your front edge in most cases... not your corner. The only exception is when contact is prevented by part-element spacing between enemy elements or physically blocked by elements, terrain or a table edge.

1. This appears to contradict what Medievalthomas said, (which no one appears to have disagreed with.)
2. It seems to imply that a front corner can count as a front edge but only in certain circumstances?

This query comes about because of a recent situation at the Northern Cup.
A single Ps element was in a wood but with part of its rear corner poking out of the wood, (i.e. it was not entirely in bad going.) A group of Cv wanted to contact the part of the side edge that was in good going with the front corner of the Cv group, thereby forcing it to conform to them out in the open.

Is this allowable?

If not why not?

Thanks

Thanks Stevie but if this is correct I find it weird.

Surely it would be easier for a front corner contact to either be allowed (i.e. to count as a front edge) or not?

The arguments for this counting as a front edge may be:
1. Corner to corner contact as part of an overlap confers an advantage, so a corner contact does count in other parts of the rules and aids combat
2. Fig 13d seems to show a corner to corner contact between Blade X and Spear A, which, although not forcing the target to conform because it's a group, does not stop combat taking place between the two elements.
3. The second paragraph in the 'Moving into contact with enemy' section on page 9 only mentions "contacting" not what part of the unit has to make the contact.

The argument against may be:
The first sentence of the 'Moving into contact with enemy' section on page 9 only mentions a front edge contact, not a front corner.

Can anyone who helped draw up the FAQs confirm if this is right and if so shed light on the reasons behind allowing a front corner to force a unit to conform or not depending upon which part of the unit it hit?

Thanks