DBA v3 period-flavour house rules

Oh...one more thing.

Medievalthomas in another thread suggested changing the LH combat outcome so that
they flee if doubled by shooting bows.

This is also an excellent suggestion.
At the moment, bows ganging-up on LH at long range have 21 chances out of 36 of killing
them (that's a 58.3% chance)...which I think most people would agree is a little excessive!

Making doubled LH flee from shooting bows would make it harder to kill them.
But they would flee right off the battlefield more often, which is good enough.

Later Edit:-
As a follow on to the above, here is a snippet from “Lessons from History” (which can be
found here: fanaticus-dba.fandom.com/wiki/File:LESSONS_FROM_HISTORY.pdf )


        Historical justification for the LH fleeing from Bows
        Three shooters targeting a single LH element has 21 chances out of 36 of scoring a double...which is a bit high.
        MedievalThomas suggests that doubled LH instead flee from Bows, and this does indeed more closely match
        the historical accounts, where LH fled from the battlefield rather than being slaughtered by arrows.
        If LH are doubled when shot in the rear-edge, usually after fleeing last bound, then they will be broken and lost.
        It’s as if they were already shaken by the first flee move, and another double score turns the flight into a rout.

        Note that playtesting shows that if LH were killed when doubled in close combat with Bows, bowmen would be
        encouraged to charge at the light horsemen...which is not at all realistic (doubled LH already flees from WWg).

        You may ask why LH are killed by being doubled by Psiloi in close combat, but they will flee from Bows.
        Well, a Bow figure represents between 6 to 10 ranks, with the rear ranks shooting blindly using ‘barrage fire’
        as they can’t even see the target. Psiloi on the other hand are a thin line of snipers spread out in open order,
        shooting directly just when their target raises his shield to ward off an attack from another direction, or are
        deliberately aiming for that unprotected head or that unarmoured part of the light horseman’s body...


How Bows can kill LH when LH flee if doubled by Bows:-
　　* make ‘em flee off a table base edge (fleeing twice will do it, or once on a small table if the LH don’t advance).
　　* after fleeing they’ll have their rear facing the Bows, and a double in the rear routs ‘em (and they are then lost).
　　* if while fleeing they hit an obstacle (a Waterway, City, Fort, Camp, or troops they can’t penetrate), they’ll halt
　　   and have their rear facing the Bows, and will often still be in range after the Bows advance 1 BW (see above).     
　　* if they cannot flee at all because of an obstacle, they'll be lost (see page 12 paragraph 8...so avoid double ranks!).
Plus of course there are the usual conventional ways of killing them (hard-flank ‘em, use Cavalry against ‘em, and so on).

Try it and see.



Some Helpful Downloads can be found here: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And here is the latest Jan 2019 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2019_1st_Quarter

Curious, would 3/4Ax still catch LI and LM, or do they flee those as well?

Thanks for posting that Simon.

I really must get a copy of Tom's rules...
...if only to see what ideas I can pinch! 



Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, including the latest June 2017 FAQ and the Quick Reference Sheets from the Society of Ancients:-
fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes

A few comments from your demented author.

The rule I settled on for Bow is: LB & CB are +3 v. Foot (at all ranges) (Crossbow shoot only in own bound). Bow remain +2. It seems clear that the main effect of the more powerful Bows was to increase threat to Foot. Missile could be battle winners but smart generals took precautions. Just like combating Knights - with precautions they become less effect - but only if you took precautions. Increases in armor were mostly caused by a reaction to missiles (there is a reason while all armies eventually become missile armed).

Re Evading: generally if your are Lights (LH, PS inDBX speak), you can Evade in Ranged Combat and against anything in Close for which you have a higher MA (in terrain).

For Mediums (Cav, Aux etc.) you can Evade in Close v. Foot (only) if you have a higher MA (generally applies to missile armed Mounted and Aux types - Lance armed Medium Mounted for instance do not Evade).

An Evade converts a Destroyed on Double to a Flee.

A Game of Knights and Knaves is an interactive game (I take feed back). Simon has already been a great help. Currently I'm pondering just giving LB/CB a +1 in TZ rather than all ranges.

Thomas J. Thomas
Fame and Glory Games

Pike are problematic in DBA for many reasons.

I'm also dubious that classical Indian Bow should count as "longbow" which is more about the quality of archer than just length of bow.

To solve the Pike problem you need points - so Bow cost 3, Longbow 4 and TWO stands of Pike cost 4 - you buy em in pairs (but still as single stands to help with attrition).

While on the topic Pikes have gotten undervalued against Knights. They are (essentially) +5 for 2 stacked stands but 2 stands of Knights will overlap the Pike bringing the combat down to +3! v. +4 - not at all bad for the Knights. A Knight general makes it +4! v. +4 - fantastic for the Knights. (Why not just take more versital Spears?)


My solution (so far) is to use the double point system above and give Pike a universal +2 for Rear Support. It seems to be working as we actually see players taking Lansiter Pike and (almost in my case) winning (instead of whining).

I am by the way very much in favor of mandatory TZ shooting. Its essential for historical simulation value (for which Knights and Knaves is dedicated), no archers are going to ignore the enemies bearing down on them to shoot elsewhere. For the 12 element tournament game I suppose this is not such a central issue.

If you put in the Flee rule for Lights, you do not need to increase there "missile defense" they will behave like Lights and run away if the going gets tough. Its a much better rule and uses standard DBX mechisms.

(If you don't want to jump feet first into Knights and Knaves, D3H2 has a primitive point system to help the Pike and Aux issues and "shooters" to help with missile issues. I cannot recommend strongly enough adapting it as the universal plain jane DBX system.)

TomT

As a stubborn romantic who often uses HYW armies in DBA tournaments (partially because its the only 15mm army I have), I understand concern about shooting esp v. HF. We tried to make it better in 3.0. But without +3 v. Foot longbow and crossbow (Shooters from HOTT) its impossible to simulate the medieval period. DBA uses an "average" archer and combines the quite different abilties of Crossbow and Longbow - and ends up not really representing any particular historical bowmen - but it has to cover 3000 years of history with the same set of troop types. Keep in mind that due to the longer range you do get many more shots v. HF than in prior DBA versions. We have found the +3 longbows adequate representations for doing HYW battles even with the mandatory shooting.

I put in a mild attrition rule as an option in Knights and Knaves but have not gotten back enough feedback from players (who are excellent playtesters) to determine its value. As the player base grows more players may try the optional rules and I can get more info.

But I do like the +1 for TZ shooting and agree its a necessity with the current +2 v. Foot bow.

TomT

Hi!

relooking at fatigue factors in your doc,

i suppose that a fled unit is considered as fatigued too?

thx