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Post by dpd on Oct 1, 2023 12:30:09 GMT
Currently the main difference between fast (3kn) knights and solid (4kn) knights (though 3kn aren't really fast - they have the same movement rates as 4kn and they suffer the same types of losses from "less than" rolls) is that 3kn recoils from 4kn when rolls are equal and 3kn pursues 1bw.
Well and good, that makes perfect sense.
Meanwhile, 4kn = hch, 3cv = lch and 2lh = 2cm.
But 3kn and 3cm (cam) are separate and distinct - one of those rule inconsistencies that drive me nuts.
But suppose 3kn = cam as the three examples given above.
Do this by giving cam the same combat factors as a 3kn (3 against foot and 4 against mounted).
Camels really were more effective against horses (who were frightened of their alien size, shape and smell) - and this should be reflected in the combat factors.
But then give 3kn the same combat results for "less than" rolls as cam (destroyed only by sch, fleeing from ele) instead of being destroyed by ele, cam, lho and lcm like a 4kn.
Being more agile than 4kn, 3kn should be more survivable and be destroyed by fewer unit types.
TLdR: give cam the same combat factors as 3kn and give 3kn the same survivability as cam, making them equivalent units 3kn = cam, like 4kn = hch, 3cv = lch, and 2lh = 2cm.
Thoughts or comments?
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Post by hodsopa on Oct 1, 2023 12:35:52 GMT
Interesting, but I think "inconsistency" is a strong word. Troop types that resemble each other in one respect (eg mounted that move 3 BW) don't need to resemble each other in all. As for 3Kn, I think the game gets them about right. I love their brash vulnerability and wouldn't want to make them less brittle.
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Post by menacussecundus on Oct 1, 2023 15:01:22 GMT
4Kn don't equate to HCh, because HCh pursue and HCh aren't recoiled on an equal score v 3Kn. Plus, of course, LCm treat dunes and oases as Good Going.
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Post by paddy649 on Oct 1, 2023 18:13:59 GMT
Just choose Taureg and carpet bomb the terrain with Dunes and an Oasis. Happiness is Dunes with a Camel!
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Post by Baldie on Oct 1, 2023 19:28:10 GMT
Just choose Taureg and carpet bomb the terrain with Dunes and an Oasis. Happiness is Dunes with a Camel! I had to see that just before going to bed didn't I, another night of nightmares of being chased around a sand pit by laughing dromedarys. |
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Post by hodsopa on Oct 1, 2023 20:05:35 GMT
Are you frightened of their alien shape, size and smell, Baldie?
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Post by dpd on Oct 2, 2023 11:52:32 GMT
As a follow up to: "But then give 3kn the same combat results for "less than" rolls as cam (destroyed only by sch, fleeing from ele) instead of being destroyed by ele, cam, lho and lcm like a 4kn."
Why exactly are camels magically immune to the arrows of horse archers, but not the horses of knights?
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Post by Les1964 on Oct 2, 2023 11:57:14 GMT
What page of the 200 in the rule book do you want this on ? |
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Post by menacussecundus on Oct 2, 2023 12:17:39 GMT
As a follow up to: "But then give 3kn the same combat results for "less than" rolls as cam (destroyed only by sch, fleeing from ele) instead of being destroyed by ele, cam, lho and lcm like a 4kn." Why exactly are camels magically immune to the arrows of horse archers, but not the horses of knights? Camels aren't "magically immune", any more than Cv are magically immune - and both have the same CF against LH. Whereas Kn start with a higher CF, although the spotted arbiters of Fate may decide that they will perish nevertheless. |
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Post by dpd on Oct 2, 2023 17:41:46 GMT
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Post by Baldie on Oct 2, 2023 17:46:54 GMT
Are you frightened of their alien shape, size and smell, Baldie? I was born in Swinton I sailed the world in the RN including long stints in Plymouth and Portsmouth I now live in Barnsley Alien shape, size and smell have never worried me |
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Post by stevie on Oct 2, 2023 19:19:41 GMT
You’ve missed a bit from that “Detailed Crib Sheet” dpd. Combat Outcomes If Score Equal:- 3Kn recoils 4Kn |
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Post by dpd on Oct 2, 2023 20:11:38 GMT
Mentioned that in my first post.
And if the rules were consistent, every light version of a unit type would recoil from its solid version.
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Post by menacussecundus on Oct 2, 2023 20:56:33 GMT
It isn't the only difference though, is it? Because, as you mentioned in your original post, 4Kn recoil from 3Kn on a tie; HCh don't. (And, frankly, whether or not an element pursues is a pretty substantial difference.) Let me put it another way, 4Kn don't equate to HCh, 3Kn are a much closer match. Of the three, it is 4Kn who are the odd man out. So the TLDR justification of 3Kn = Cm to match the other "pairings" doesn't cut the mustard. (Other condiments are available.) But looking at the meat of your suggestion, would Cm have a CF of +4 against all mounted - including El and LCm - or just against those on horses? Would LCm also get a +1 or are they a less frightening shape? What would the combat factors be for Cm v LCm: 4v3? 3v2? or 4v2? Would Cm keep their QK against 4Kn and HCh in addition to starting the combat on the same factor or would that give them too great an advantage? |
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Post by menacussecundus on Oct 2, 2023 21:00:22 GMT
Mentioned that in my first post. And if the rules were consistent, every light version of a unit type would recoil from its solid version. It's a game mechanism. If the rules were consistent, all Kn would pursue. |
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