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Post by jeffreythancock on Jan 11, 2020 16:15:17 GMT
Anyone here ever worked up a DBN Qajar Persian army list for the Russo-Persian Wars of 1804-1813?
I have general army lists and some OOB for the Qajar, but struggling with categorizing units as DBN elements. Some seem straight forward when compared to the DBN Ottoman list, but others I waffle on categorizing.
Is there a DBN forum with the authors/publishers participating?
Thanks, Jeff
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Post by draigcoch on Jan 31, 2020 18:57:58 GMT
I managed to find an old set of army lists for the WRG 1680 rules. Obviously the categorization is not the same as DBN so I will have to work on it. Don't know of any dedicated DBN forum/fora - maybe start one! Plan to be at Vapnartak on Sunday so will look around for suitable figures.
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Post by jeffreythancock on Feb 1, 2020 1:55:46 GMT
I managed to find an old set of army lists for the WRG 1680 rules. Obviously the categorization is not the same as DBN so I will have to work on it. Don't know of any dedicated DBN forum/fora - maybe start one! Plan to be at Vapnartak on Sunday so will look around for suitable figures. I've also searched for a place with more DBN talk with little success. I even reached out to Alex at KISR, but there is little demand for an "official" DBN list. Few choices for figures. Irregular and Khurasan for 15/18mm and only one for 28mm. I have David Brown's book and lists from Micrmark. I believe the DBN Ottomans are a good go-by for Qajar Persians with a few changes.
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Post by predhead on Feb 10, 2020 19:16:18 GMT
I managed to find an old set of army lists for the WRG 1680 rules. Obviously the categorization is not the same as DBN so I will have to work on it. Don't know of any dedicated DBN forum/fora - maybe start one! Plan to be at Vapnartak on Sunday so will look around for suitable figures. I've also searched for a place with more DBN talk with little success. I even reached out to Alex at KISR, but there is little demand for an "official" DBN list. Few choices for figures. Irregular and Khurasan for 15/18mm and only one for 28mm. I have David Brown's book and lists from Micrmark. I believe the DBN Ottomans are a good go-by for Qajar Persians with a few changes. Care to share the list with your suggested changes? I have the Brown book as well, and like the look of the Qajar...but really would have a difficult time justifying buying any figures as my friends might think I've completely gone off the rails!
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Post by draigcoch on Feb 11, 2020 18:07:41 GMT
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Post by timurilank on Feb 11, 2020 18:39:41 GMT
I have the WRG 1685 - 1845 rule set. What questions do you have?
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Post by draigcoch on Feb 11, 2020 20:22:25 GMT
OK here are my initial questions:
(1) In the format: Numbers - description - units Do the numbers represent elements or individual figures (ppf would suggest the latter). (2) What are the gradings? Raw - trained (then elite!) So how do 'soldiers' fit in? (3) How many points make up an average army? (4) Looking at battlefield roles - there seem to be line, light, skirmishers, fanatics, charging infantry, warriors and guns. How do these impact the ppf?
Any light you can cast would be welcome.
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Post by timurilank on Feb 11, 2020 21:24:55 GMT
1. Numbers (figure quantity) – description. Note: historical scale is 1:40 (cavalry) or 1:50 (infantry) and 1 artillery model is five guns.
2. Regulars are divided into; Elite – Well trained men belonging to a unit with a guard or grenadier title including ad-hoc combinations of nominally separate grenadier companies but not such companies when operating as part of a line unit. They are assumed to be very well drilled and to have an exceptionally good opinion of themselves. Troops with the right titles but not of the requisite quality, such as Neapolitan or Spanish grenadiers, do not belong to this class and must be fitted in elsewhere as seems appropriate. Veteran – Belonging to a unit which has special training or extensive campaigning become as competent or in some ways so as elites, and have acquired by success in battle as good an opinion of themselves or a low esteem of their opponents, whether or not this is in fact justified. Trained – The great bulk of regular troops. Not quite as competent or confident. Raw – Militia, recruits or otherwise badly trained or officered troops. Liable to fall into confusion during drill or sudden panics during emergencies.
Irregulars are similarly divided into; Fanatics – Inspired by religion to disregard personal danger, as for example, Egyptian mamelukes or Indian ghazis. Soldiers – Belonging to a unit commanded by officers, paid, often uniformed, sometimes drilled to some extent, but fighting in irregular fashion. Examples include jaegers, chasseurs, Grenzer, highlanders and most hussars of the Seven Years War, Cossacks, Indian artillery, rocketeers, and mercenary matchlock men and Texas Rangers. Warriors – Of lower than European cultural level, but with high fighting aptitude, equipped with their own personal weapons, and led by their own chieftains or elected leaders such as highland clansmen in the 45, red Indians, backwoodsmen and Indian hillmen. Levies – Men not accustomed to fighting, but enlisted or conscripted to work, or who have been armed or armed themselves in an emergency or for political ends, such as pioneers, civilian artillery, or transport drivers, Irish rebels, French revolutionary mobs or Spanish guerrillas.
3. I have a hazy recollection of 1500 or 1600 points being the norm for competition games, but we had equally enjoyable games with far less; two battalions, one or two stands of skirmishers and a squadron of cavalry.
4. (4) Looking at battlefield roles - there seem to be line, light, skirmishers, fanatics, charging infantry, warriors and guns. How do these impact the ppf?
I am not sure about your question, but there should not be a problem if you collect an army using the standard ratio of the time; 1:6 horse to foot, one gun per thousand men and one in ten units may be elite.
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Post by draigcoch on Feb 12, 2020 12:36:22 GMT
Thanks for the info. Now need to read the book so that I can make any necessary adjustments.
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Post by draigcoch on Feb 25, 2020 15:36:03 GMT
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Post by johnthered on Sept 8, 2020 20:01:38 GMT
Hi I posted some info on your blog but for wider audience, Irregular Mins has a 15mm range with pretty much all you need in its 'Indian Mutiny and other early Colonial British campaigns'. Essex Mins have a few interesting extras eg a set of camel gunners firing over kneeling and clearly well trained camels. This website has a section on the uniforms - www.ottoman-uniforms.com/Its an interesting opponent for the Russians, Ottomans and later century British, Afgans and misc others in Central Asia to boot. 'Tangiers to Terhan' by Mark Bevis (published via Irregular Miniatures 1994) has some details on the army, make up, uniforms, size and key events. Bevis identifies five armies, based in the different regions of which Abbas Mirza's Azerbaijan army was the one who did most of the fighting against the Russians (1807 - 1830). His army contained the following: Regulars (European style trained, using French and/or Russian drill and uniformed): Kurdish Lancers regiment (800 men) Russian Fauj (mercenaries and deserters) - 1,000 men - muskets & bayonets Guard Infantry - 1,000 men - muskets & bayonets & swords From 12 to 17 Regular Fauj of 1,000 men each - muskets & bayonets & swords 8 horse arty batteries with 6pdrs and 3 mountain batteries (3 or 6 pdrs) Irregulars 10,000 Qajar light cav with bows, spears, carbines etc 5,000 local light cav (Kurds (in mail), Georgians, Armenians etc) 4,000 Tufangchi infantry with muskets and swords 4 Zembuk companies each of around 50 camel gunners with 1pdr swivel guns operating like skirmishers Should be fairly straight forward to translate that into DBA bases. Be interested to see how the project plays out cheers
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