|
|
Psiloi
Aug 31, 2016 7:42:34 GMT
via mobile
Post by Haardrada on Aug 31, 2016 7:42:34 GMT
I would just like to comment on how differently Psiloi are in 3.0.
Yet the rules for them are pretty much the same as in 2.2.exept they don't hide behind an infantry line to give a combat bonus vs mounted elements anymore.
Now in the 3.0 combat system they cannot be overlapped and now only recoil from El & Sch instead of fleeing,but that is only part of it.Maybe its the new movement system of moving in bw thats the difference, yet in proportion they still move the same distance as Kn and El.
Yes Psiloi are still vulnerable to mounted,Bw, Aux & other Ps.,plus some recoil or flee mishaps, but on the whole to me they have reached a new level in versitility.
|
|
|
|
Psiloi
Aug 31, 2016 11:03:31 GMT
Post by timurilank on Aug 31, 2016 11:03:31 GMT
I would just like to comment on how differently Psiloi are in 3.0. Yet the rules for them are pretty much the same as in 2.2.exept they don't hide behind an infantry line to give a combat bonus vs mounted elements anymore. Now in the 3.0 combat system they cannot be overlapped and now only recoil from El & Sch instead of fleeing,but that is only part of it.Maybe its the new movement system of moving in bw thats the difference, yet in proportion they still move the same distance as Kn and El. Yes Psiloi are still vulnerable to mounted,Bw, Aux & other Ps.,plus some recoil or flee mishaps, but on the whole to me they have reached a new level in versitility. I remember well how my Lusitanian plagued the consular army in their test series.
I like using rocky ground or scrub for Ps to operate from or double move to. Wood and difficult hills are good but can create problems for their commander if out of sight.
I like having one or two Ps included in an army.
|
|
|
|
Psiloi
Aug 31, 2016 12:50:15 GMT
Post by Tony Aguilar on Aug 31, 2016 12:50:15 GMT
We (our group) don't find psiloi as useful as before. As a matter of fact we have found that when playing with allies, they usually are one of the first elements substituted in the core army. In 2.2/2.2+ they could ambush (first turn rush) and could provide rear support to several elements. They DO have some cool interactions now: flee from bow fire when doubled, no -1 for being flanked, do a good job of distracting elephants. Lately, they have been known for standing up to cavalry and knights in the opening and killing them.  That doesn't mean we think they suck or are worthless. They just have less pages in their playbook than before. |
|
|
|
Psiloi
Aug 31, 2016 16:17:33 GMT
Post by ammianus on Aug 31, 2016 16:17:33 GMT
In my Late Roman era games, I too jettison the usual 2x Psiloi while picking up an allied contingent:
For my Patricians, for example: Huns, 1CV, 2LH, Franks: 1CV, 2WB...etc.
|
|
|
|
Psiloi
Aug 31, 2016 21:17:28 GMT
Post by bob on Aug 31, 2016 21:17:28 GMT
Don't forget that they move as a line through bad and rough going. They, along with Ax, get to deploy in the outer zone. Do not get pursued by foot other than hordes, do not get second rank support against them from warbands and Pk. Get passed through by fleeing elephants and other mounted. These combined with all the above make them pretty useful. I might give up one for an ally but I wouldn't give up all my Psiloi . My only regret from the development, is that they cannot make contact on that first double move.
|
|
|
|
Psiloi
Sept 1, 2016 7:05:41 GMT
via mobile
Post by Haardrada on Sept 1, 2016 7:05:41 GMT
I must admit I consider dropping Ps from my army choices for some armies depending on what army Im facing, but some armies do not have the luxury of allies so you have to make the best of it.
My Late Swiss for instance, have 2 Ps and no allies so the Ps have to do their bit.I have found they are useful at dealling with Burgundian Mtd-Lb as can sometimes keep them off the Pk flanks or Tz them to restrict their movement.
|
|
|
|
Psiloi
Sept 1, 2016 7:23:15 GMT
Post by ronisan on Sept 1, 2016 7:23:15 GMT
Hello Haardrada,
you said: Now in the 3.0 combat system they cannot be overlapped
PS are not overlapped only in front-corner to front-corner contact (!) ... they still get overlapped when in mutual flank contact !
|
|
|
|
Psiloi
Sept 1, 2016 7:28:23 GMT
Post by martin on Sept 1, 2016 7:28:23 GMT
Hello Haardrada, you said: Now in the 3.0 combat system they cannot be overlapped PS are not overlapped only in front-corner to front-corner contact (!) ... they still get overlapped when in mutual flank contact ! Indeed....side edge to side edge = overlapped, front corner to front corner = not overlapped. Martin |
|
|
|
Psiloi
Sept 1, 2016 7:38:24 GMT
via mobile
Post by Haardrada on Sept 1, 2016 7:38:24 GMT
Hello Haardrada, you said: Now in the 3.0 combat system they cannot be overlapped PS are not overlapped only in front-corner to front-corner contact (!) ... they still get overlapped when in mutual flank contact ! Indeed....side edge to side edge = overlapped, front corner to front corner = not overlapped. Martin Sorry I should have used the full description from page 10 of the rules which states that Psiloi and Scythed Chariots cannot be frontally overlapped. All elements are overlapped by flank contact.😊 |
|
|
|
Psiloi
Sept 1, 2016 16:04:37 GMT
Post by medievalthomas on Sept 1, 2016 16:04:37 GMT
I think we have managed to make Ps model real world uses much better in 3.0 than prior versions. And given them a purpose beyond being 81mm morters.
I don't think they have the same punch and uses as a Knight or Blade (let alone the dread Kn//Bl of olden days). But to perfectly balance all element types in a 12 v. 12 game is just impossible (but see D3H2 for a simple point system that helps).
I tried to convince Phil to have Ps count as only 1/2 element lost for determing victory to help balance (and model expendaible nature) but to no avail. Good house rule though.
TomT
|
|
Fab
Munifex
Posts: 12 
|
Psiloi
Sept 1, 2016 16:29:52 GMT
Post by Fab on Sept 1, 2016 16:29:52 GMT
To have Ps count as half element is a good idea. Otherwise they are, in my experience, always dropped in favour of an allied.
|
|
|
|
Psiloi
Sept 2, 2016 1:00:57 GMT
Post by twrnz on Sept 2, 2016 1:00:57 GMT
Most gamers here are keen to have at least one stand of Ps, in some armies I prefer two. They can be found delaying enemy heavy foot, holding terrain or forming a useful reserve. They are deadly against elephants.
In my view they are one of the most useful, but under rated troops of DBA 3.0.
|
|
|
|
Psiloi
Sept 2, 2016 13:12:55 GMT
Post by wjhupp on Sept 2, 2016 13:12:55 GMT
They are very abstract units. I have lost them too many times to archery, etc. so I am in the camp that for newbies they should only count 1/2 units towards a loss. Or only use armies that don't have them. (Even with 1 or 2 you start the game down. I have also done the same to opponents.)
Too many DBA beginner games I have played end with the core troops never getting into combat. That does not sit well with people in terms of accepting the game. (And to ancicipate responses, I appreciate that clever and subtle sometimes are hard to sell to people.)
My first games were with HYW and Scots vs. English armies that had few Ps and these games positively shaped my view of DBA.
Bill
|
|
|
|
Psiloi
Sept 3, 2016 15:45:53 GMT
via mobile
Post by primuspilus on Sept 3, 2016 15:45:53 GMT
They are very abstract units. I have lost them too many times to archery, etc. Bill Note Ps flee if doubled by shooting. As such they make a great screen against Lb... Also they are useful for harassing artillery as well. I always have at least one, since they can sometimes ZoC artillery from an awkward angle if isolated, rendering them useless. Also they are great against SCh and El. Plus a single Ps in rough or bad can sometimes delay an enemy flank move by Ax or fast Bw, due to their ability to avoid frontal overlaps. |
|
|
|
Psiloi
Sept 3, 2016 16:30:32 GMT
Post by timurilank on Sept 3, 2016 16:30:32 GMT
They are very abstract units. I have lost them too many times to archery, etc. Bill Note Ps flee if doubled by shooting. As such they make a great screen against Lb... Also they are useful for harassing artillery as well. I always have at least one, since they can sometimes ZoC artillery from an awkward angle if isolated, rendering them useless. Also they are great against SCh and El. Plus a single Ps in rough or bad can sometimes delay an enemy flank move by Ax or fast Bw, due to their ability to avoid frontal overlaps. Regarding a score of twice as many from bows against psiloi, I am not sure if many catch that subtle difference between distant shooting and close combat. |
|
