Countdown Clock

Some interesting ‘outside-of-the-box’ creative thinking there Greedo.
Mind you, it does strike me as a bit odd that nobody knows when nightfall will be.
　　“Centurion, it’s midday now, so how long until sunset?”
　　“Well sire, it all depends...could be 4 hours, or it could be 8...
　　...that pesky sun keeps moving at different speeds across the sky...”

Surely there is one thing that every general, every soldier, in every period, knows with absolute certainty...
...and that’s when the sun will go down (even if wargamers don’t!  ).

For what its worth, here is something in the “Lessons from History” that Primuspilus and I have finished,
which contains a downloadable version of the "Sun Clock", and it can be found here:-
            fanaticus-dba.fandom.com/wiki/File:LESSONS_FROM_HISTORY.pdf


                                    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            You could just keep a note of the number of elapsed bounds on a piece of paper, or by using a stack of coins.
            But here is a more visual method.
                                                                         The Sun Clock
                                                

            This is a simplified version of this: fanaticus-dba.fandom.com/wiki/File:TIME_OF_DAY_DISPLAY.pdf
            and is cheaper on colour printing costs (you could print it in black & white, then colour it in by pencil or felt-tip).
            Just stick it to a piece of stiff card and use a small coin to represent the position of the sun throughout the day.

            Using the Sun Clock
            The sun marker is moved at the beginning of the defender’s bound or at the end of the invader’s bound.
            The 1st hour, ‘dawn’, is used for terrain placement (while the troops eat breakfast and prepare their equipment).
            The 2nd hour, ‘sunrise’, is used for deployment (the troops leave their camp and take up their battle positions).
            The 3rd hour, ‘early morning’ is when a DBA game starts as the troops begin to manoeuvre (but the real start
            of the battle, actual combat, may take several more hours, simulating engagements that started late in the day).

            Night battles were rare, but if a player wishes a die roll of ‘6’ means no time limit due to a bright full moon.

            Alternatively
            If you find that 10 bounds each is not enough and that night is falling too soon for your liking, try the following:-
            All the terrain placement and army deployment happens before ‘dawn’, so there is 12 bounds/hours each, and
            have a DBA game beginning at ‘dawn’.

                                    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Some Helpful Downloads can be found here: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And here is the latest Jan 2019 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2019_1st_Quarter

A similar method is used in a Napoleonic game that I love playing (Lasalle), ... after so many turns, both players roll for a bonus turn... if both players get a '1', then the game ends, otherwise the game continues for another turn, after that if both players roll either a '1' or '2' then the game ends, and so on.  Does add a bit of tension, so I like your idea greedo.

Here’s another one then for you Bob. 

Very well Nangwaya, if you want a bit of uncertainty about when night will actually fall, and taking into account that
generals would not be entirely sure how long actions would take as Greedo says...then how about the following:-

　　---Using my “Sun Clock”, if either player’s PIP roll is less than 3 the sun marker is not moved---
                   (in other words, not enough actions have taken place to fill an entire hour)

I like it. A lot! And it need not be an actual full day - the battle could have started any time! But that is a nice marker!

DBA in campaigns suffers from the lack of being able to force a fight. Tournament players have to score points to win. But campaign players are devious as all heck. I like the "limited overs" version!

As always, the ideas that sound good when you write them down, just don't work under repeated play. And ideas that sound terrible (like side supoort for Spears) work fantastically well when played.

I can telk you that as a seasoned 2.2 player, I was HORRIFIED at the thought of side support for Spears! Spear formations are about depth! There has NEVER in DBA been any kind of "side" support.

And now we all love it ...

I have a vague recollection (when playing 2.2 many years ago) of using a variable army collapse but the chances of the game carrying on were related to the difference in losses. The assumption was that, if one side had lost 4 elements & the other 3, they might be more inclined to carry on than if the ratio was 4:1 or even 4:0. This has more to do with varying morale than the countdown clock which I really like the sound of.

Regards,

j

That’s a good idea Greedo. 👍
So what we want is something simple, plausible, surprising, yet not happen too often.
Therefore let’s put ourselves an ancient warriors shoes and look at it from their point of view.

Firstly, it’s important not to attack too early. That would catch the enemy still in camp before they
had a chance to deploy, meaning scaling ladders and rams will be needed to assault the defences.
Camps were difficult to capture, which is why they built them. Better to let the enemy come out.

The red army spends the 1st ‘hour’ getting up as usual at dawn, eating breakfast, and preparing themselves.
In the dark twilight they see camp fires being lit in the enemy camp and assume they are doing the same.
In the 2nd ‘hour’ they leave camp and deploy to their battlefield positions, and expect to begin manoeuvring
for battle in the 3rd ‘hour’.

However, the blue army got up early and prepared themselves before the crack of dawn. They skipped
breakfast and spent the 1st ‘hour’ leaving camp and deploying, leaving behind camp followers and camp
guards to light fires so that it looks like they are still in camp and eating breakfast. In the 2nd ‘hour’, while
the red army is deploying, the blue army in already in position and begins manoeuvring, catching the red
army off-guard and making a surprise attack.

The disadvantage to the blue’s for missing some sleep and breakfast?...they’ll suffer fatigue more quickly.
And fatigue and morale are closely linked, so they will break and rout more easily (losing a ¼, or 3 elements,
of your army is one thing...doing so on an empty grumbling stomach with a lack of sleep is going to be so
much worse).

So I propose the following (I have now playtested this and added the extra line in blue):-
     Both sides roll for aggression as normal,
     The defender chooses and places terrain as normal,
     The invader picks the base edges as normal,
     Both sides deploy as normal,
Now for the interesting bit...
     If the defender’s first PIP roll is a 1 or 2, the invader can if they wish make a surprise attack.
     If the defender’s first PIP roll is a 5 or 6, the defender can if they wish make a surprise attack.
     If the defender’s first PIP roll is a 3 or 4, then no surprise attack and the battle plays out as normal.

The Effect of a Surprise Attack
    * Your opponent cannot actually spend any PIP’s in their first bound...
    * Invaders (only) making a surprise attack may move their entire army 3 BW straight forwards for free,
       so they are touching the table centre-line, before the start of their first bound move phase...
    * All Littoral Landings are delayed until the next bound (even ships need daylight to be able to
       keep in formation and not get lost, and to navigate so they can see where the shoreline is).
    * But those making a surprise attack will rout and be defeated when they lose 3 instead of 4 elements.
    * And the “Sun Clock” (see fanaticus.boards.net/post/20256/) and the DBA game starts at ‘Sunrise’.

Thus we have an advantage (the enemy is frozen for one bound, and invaders start closer to the enemy),
and a corresponding disadvantage (your army will be more brittle, so you’ll need a quick victory or else).
Thus surprise attacks are simple, plausible, don’t happen very often, and come as a complete surprise.

Now then, although you may have the opportunity of making a surprise attack, is it worth it?
Is the enemy deployment and the terrain suitable? Or should you forgo the risk and fight as normal?
Ah decisions, decisions...