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Post by wyvern on Aug 6, 2018 17:30:06 GMT
I played a game of DBA recently and came up against something I didn't understand: Knights are destroyed by Blades in close combat when the totals are equal, but as far as I can see they are ONLY recoiled if they score LESS than a blade. It doesn't seem logical, Am I missing something ( I am a new player).
Cheers Paul.
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Post by lkmjbc on Aug 6, 2018 18:03:26 GMT
No, you aren't missing anything. Results on ties give a much broader scope of outcomes. The result here was used to give a better set of outcomes for the Knight vs Blade matchup.
You can of course rationalize it any way you want...but the head to head dice roll is simply a way to randomize an outcome.
It is fun that doubling your opponent destroys him...but in reality it is just a set of percentages that could be duplicated by a table and a single D100 roll.
Does that help?
Joe Collins
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Post by paulhannah on Aug 6, 2018 18:07:54 GMT
Others will surely reply with more analytical replies and/or direct knowledge of Phil Barker's thinking from the DBA-3 development. My guess is that Phil wanted a more of chance that Blades would destroy Knights (i.e. more than simply doubling the Kn), based on historical evidence, etc. The tie-score result provides that outcome in a simple and elegant way.
It's also very exciting when it happens, right? So, I'd say, just enjoy it. The outcome seems plausible (to me, at least), and it really adds to the entertainment value of the game.
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Post by wyvern on Aug 6, 2018 18:14:20 GMT
Thanks guys, it does help to get a bit of an insight behind how the mechanics of the game have been decided upon. I do enjoy DBA very much and I'm sure this is one of many subtleties of the game I will encounter. Paul.
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Post by scottrussell on Aug 6, 2018 18:26:49 GMT
If you want to rationalise it, you might think that knights rely on impact for their success, and if brought to a halt (so equal scores) they are more vulnerable to the agile blades. If they score less than the blades and "bounce off" as it were, they can rally back with a view to trying again. If you choose this option, you will have to think of another reason why longbows and, particularly , crossbows, have the same effect on the knights! Scott
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Post by wyvern on Aug 6, 2018 18:41:03 GMT
That is one way of looking at it : ) thanks
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Post by wyvern on Aug 6, 2018 18:47:25 GMT
that is what i like about the game it has its subtleties, like when i first started I thought Psloi were not much use but I have since learned they are great for holding up enemies and buying time.
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Post by bob on Aug 7, 2018 15:09:17 GMT
Scott has captured exactly what Phil explained during development. If knights win they just stomp through the blades. If they lose, they fall back and Rally. Equals implies extended combat between the two. The blades get in and hamstring the horses, pull the riders off, daggers between Pieces of armor. Very bloody for the knight.
likewise with some bows. If the Kn Do not overwhelm them in the first charge, they lose impetus, muddle around, Fall on sharpened stakes, pulled off horse, And again a dagger Under the arm, or tied up and draged back for ransom.
Just Phil’s way of adding a little more depth to the game. The game was good for 20 years without it, but it’s fun now.
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Post by medievalthomas on Aug 7, 2018 17:07:15 GMT
The Destroyed on Equals result (which we call Cry Havoc) covers the rather unusual situation where neither side gives ground. Generally if one side gets the upper hand the other falls back but in some situations you get a sustained melee - generally because one side has misunderstood the situation. Knights charged with little regard to finesse and so are particularly susceptible to getting stuck in and not realizing they need to get out of a dangerous situation. Knights stuck in against Blades are liable to be chopped up as lances are clumsy close in while blades are not, likewise milling in front of stakes while being hit by close range archery invites disaster.
So while the rule appears to be as an abstraction, it is not, but is a very real world result. Calling it Cry Havoc seemed to instantly help players understand the result. If anything we under used it - its a good idea for Lights v. Behemoths and also covers the very dangerous situation for Pikes stopped by nimble Blades. I also use it for Heroes v. Dragons (a sword to the beasts heart being a classic method to dispatch). It should only be used, however, in situations where one side has a substantial advantage in close fighting.
TomT
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Post by Haardrada on Aug 7, 2018 19:57:32 GMT
Historically Knights didnt always have it their way,Vikings defeated Carolingian armies, The Varangian Guard defeated Normans at Cannae in 1018 and the Swabians put up stubborn resistance until attacked by re-infocements at the Battle of Civitate.The Saxon Huscarles at Hastings stood repeated charges all day until numbers and casualties took effect...even the Early Swiss defeated Burgundian Knights at Laupen.
There are several examples of Bd overcoming Kn, so a QK somewhere in the combat statistics shows that the Kn attacking Bd does have a degree of risk.
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Post by wyvern on Aug 8, 2018 22:46:04 GMT
That really makes sense,thank you all for the detailed explanation. Yes knights at a standstill would be at a clear disadvantage against heavily armed infantry. All the best Paul.
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