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Post by Cinges on Jul 6, 2018 18:15:58 GMT
I am recruiting for my army of the Bagaudae (gallic peasant army of late antiquity).
Since there is no list in DBA 3.0 I felt free to create my own army.
1 x General (4Wb) 2 x Shepherds (LH)
1 x Roman Deserters 3Ax 1 x Bandits 3Wb
5 x Peasants 5Hd
2 x Shepherds with slings and javelins Ps
What do you think?
Stefan
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Post by ammianus on Jul 6, 2018 19:02:12 GMT
Like it! Good luck.
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Post by timurilank on Jul 6, 2018 20:17:52 GMT
I am recruiting for my army of the Bagaudae (gallic peasant army of late antiquity).
Since there is no list in DBA 3.0 I felt free to create my own army.
1 x General (4Wb) 2 x Shepherds (LH)
1 x Roman Deserters 3Ax 1 x Bandits 3Wb
5 x Peasants 5Hd
2 x Shepherds with slings and javelins Ps
What do you think?
Stefan
You have made an interesting start for a Bagaudae army.
I have done something similar for the three mountain kingdoms of the Caucuses as Lazica, Iberia and Albania as all were invaded at one time or another by Armenia and Sassanid Persia. All three at one time served as mercenaries for Armenia and Persia.
About your list I would make the following comments.
I do wonder if a leader of such a force might not prefer to be mounted along with his companions making them cavalry (Cv) instead of warband.
The bulk of the army might be increased to six horde, but these might be better represented as 7Hd than the ‘fast’ equivalent. A similar situation occurred during the Merovingian period of civil unrest forcing many peasants to flee to Bretagne. These are classed as 7Hd (Armorican list).
The number of deserters could be increased as the conflicts among the ‘Soldier Emperors’ intensified during the latter 3rd century. These could come from both the legions and the auxilia making them either 4Bd or 4Ax.
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Post by scottrussell on Jul 7, 2018 9:10:40 GMT
Presumably aggression 0?
Arable terrain?
Scott
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Post by scottrussell on Jul 7, 2018 9:16:28 GMT
And thinking about it further, if it really takes off as an army choice, it could probably fit in as a subset of the slave revolts (II/45) without messing up the army list section of the book. You might even be able to use some of the same figures.
Scott
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Post by timurilank on Jul 7, 2018 14:17:16 GMT
And thinking about it further, if it really takes off as an army choice, it could probably fit in as a subset of the slave revolts (II/45) without messing up the army list section of the book. You might even be able to use some of the same figures. Scott Unfortunately, these Slave Revolts (Bagaudae) took place during the 3rd to the 5th century AD; principle adversaries would be Middle Imperial, Later Imperial and Patrician Roman. Looking at the publication “Los bagaudas: rebeldes, demonios, mártires. Revueltas campesinas en Galia e Hispania durante el Bajo Imperio” the revolt affected not only Gallia but also Hispania which might also add a hilly terrain option for Galicia and Austuria. But that is something for the original poster to investigate. |
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Post by martin on Jul 7, 2018 16:27:46 GMT
And thinking about it further, if it really takes off as an army choice, it could probably fit in as a subset of the slave revolts (II/45) without messing up the army list section of the book. You might even be able to use some of the same figures. Scott Interesting and insightful suggestion, Scott. Wouldn’t jiggle all the lists about then. Also, were there large enough groups of Bacaudae to constitute an army? M |
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Post by scottrussell on Jul 9, 2018 13:59:34 GMT
And thinking about it further, if it really takes off as an army choice, it could probably fit in as a subset of the slave revolts (II/45) without messing up the army list section of the book. You might even be able to use some of the same figures. Scott Unfortunately, these Slave Revolts (Bagaudae) took place during the 3rd to the 5th century AD; principle adversaries would be Middle Imperial, Later Imperial and Patrician Roman. Looking at the publication “Los bagaudas: rebeldes, demonios, mártires. Revueltas campesinas en Galia e Hispania durante el Bajo Imperio” the revolt affected not only Gallia but also Hispania which might also add a hilly terrain option for Galicia and Austuria. But that is something for the original poster to investigate. This doesn't matter though. The other slave revolt dates don't overlap, or have an identical set of enemies. It is hardly relevant, but I suspect anybody charged with updating the army lists for version 3.1 would look more favourably on an addition which didn't entail re-numbering the entire set of armies which followed them. I write as somebody used to the convention for scientific review articles where references are listed in alphabetical order. Pre-computerisation, one was markedly less likely to slot in a late appearing paper if the principal author's surname began with an A than a Z! Scott |
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Post by ammianus on Jul 9, 2018 18:52:57 GMT
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Post by timurilank on Jul 10, 2018 16:36:31 GMT
Scott,Point taken. As one who laboured and hard over the army list corrections, extending the date of the II/45 list to include the Bagaudae is a fine solution. The Kings and General channel at YouTube uploaded today the Battle of the Catalaunian Plains 451 - Aetius vs. Attila www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KMHlGxm9K8 Of particular interest is the map illustrating all the events leading up to the great battle and in the northwest corner of Gallia are the Bagaudae Rebels.
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Post by stevie on Jan 28, 2019 12:36:06 GMT
Some of these Bagaudae uprisings were large enough to require whole armies to campaign against them:- “After the bagaudae came to the full attention of the central authorities about AD 284, re-establishment of the settled social order was swift and severe: the peasant insurgents were crushed in AD 286 by the Caesar Maximian and his subordinate Carausius, under the aegis of the Augustus Diocletian. The bagaudae leaders are mentioned as Amandus and Aelianus. In the fifth century bagaudae are noted initially in the Loire valley and Brittany, circa AD 409-17, fighting various armies sent against them by the last seriously effective Western Roman general, Flavius Aëtius. By the middle of the fifth century they are mentioned in control of parts of central Gaul and the Ebro valley. In Hispania, the king of the Suevi, Rechiar (died AD 456) took up as allies the local bagaudae in ravaging the remaining Roman municipia, a unique alliance between Germanic ruler and rebel peasant.” Source en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagaudae
(Ok...it’s only Wikipedia...but it’s better than nothing and remaining completely ignorant)Some Helpful Downloads can be found here: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And here is the latest Jan 2019 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2019_1st_Quarter
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Post by stevie on Jan 29, 2019 13:12:53 GMT
...and for those of you who distrust Wikipedia, here are some of the other sources:- www.karwansaraypublishers.com/awblog/roman-rebels-the-bacaudae/ (quite detailed) libcom.org/history/bagaudae-historys-first-revolutionaries-pablo-romero-gabella (fairly detailed and more scholarly) Bagaudae as an Army ListI personally see them as a sort of large ‘Robin Hood’ type force, mainly relying on ambushes and guerilla warfare. As such they need troops that can fight in bad going (something that DBA Hordes are not good at). So here is my reconstruction of them, emphasizing that we don’t know exactly how they were armed or organised:- II/45d Bagaudae Uprisings in Gaul and Spain (186-480 AD):1 x General (LH//3Ax), 1 x Mounted Shepherds (LH//3Ax), 4 x Bandits (3Ax) or Peasants with improvised weapons (5Hd/7Hd), 1 x Legionary deserters (4Bd) or Bandits (3Ax), 1 x Auxilia deserters (4Ax) or Bandits (3Ax), 1 x Barbarians (3/4Wb) or Bandits (3Ax), 3 x skirmishing javelinmen or slingers (Ps). Terrain Type: Arable in Gaul, Hilly in Spain. Aggression 0. Enemies: II/56, II/58, II/64a, II/65b, II/65c, II/78a, II/80d, II/82a, II/83a. (Note that the Bagaudae in Brittany had evolved into the II/81c Armoricans by 429 AD) There are a few references to great battles (like the Battle of Araceli in 443 AD, near Pamplona), but I am unable to find more details. Some Helpful Downloads can be found here: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And here is the latest Jan 2019 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2019_1st_Quarter
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Post by timurilank on Jan 29, 2019 15:11:11 GMT
...and for those of you who distrust Wikipedia, here are some of the other sources:- www.karwansaraypublishers.com/awblog/roman-rebels-the-bacaudae/ (quite detailed) libcom.org/history/bagaudae-historys-first-revolutionaries-pablo-romero-gabella (fairly detailed and more scholarly) Bagaudae as an Army ListI personally see them as a sort of large ‘Robin Hood’ type force, mainly relying on ambushes and guerilla warfare. As such they need troops that can fight in bad going (something that DBA Hordes are not good at). So here is my reconstruction of them, emphasizing that we don’t know exactly how they were armed or organised:- II/45d Bagaudae Uprisings in Gaul and Spain (186-480 AD):1 x General (LH//3Ax), 1 x Mounted Shepherds (LH//3Ax), 4 x Bandits (3Ax) or Peasants with improvised weapons (5Hd/7Hd), 1 x Legionary deserters (4Bd) or Bandits (3Ax), 1 x Auxilia deserters (4Ax) or Bandits (3Ax), 1 x Barbarians (3/4Wb) or Bandits (3Ax), 3 x skirmishing javelinmen or slingers (Ps). Terrain Type: Arable in Gaul, Hilly in Spain. Aggression 0. Enemies: II/56, II/58, II/64a, II/65b, II/65c, II/78a, II/80d, II/82a, II/83a. (Note that the Bagaudae in Brittany had evolved into the II/81c Armoricans by 429 AD) There are a few references to great battles (like the Battle of Araceli in 443 AD, near Pamplona), but I am unable to find more details. Some Helpful Downloads can be found here: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And here is the latest Jan 2019 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2019_1st_Quarter
Those links are good references with the latter one placing events in chronological order and seperating the Gallic and Hispanic rebellions. In Gabella’s article, he mentions the reliance of the mobile armies (comitateneses) and static garrisons (limitanei) to defend the two provinces. However, the civil unrest (usurpers) of the early 5th century would have stripped both Gaul and Hispania of its prime military leaving militia to defend key walled cities. Ian Hughes, in his book Aetius, Attila’s Nemesis, covers the bacaudae rebellions and documents well the political events and military activity in the west. The bacaudae of northwest Gaul were contained to their region as the Alani, who entered Gaul with the migration of 406, were later employed by Rome and settled on the border with Armorica. I like the list. The mounted shepards are a nice touch and the barbarians could be Vandal or Suevi mercenaries. On a side note there is a record of the Suevi serving as allies in Hispania. |
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