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Post by jim1973 on Apr 15, 2018 12:24:27 GMT
I found an electronic copy of DBM 3.2 and I've tried to convert the Time of Day and Weather rules to suit DBA 3.
For those unfamiliar, it simply uses the same die rolls made at deployment to determine time of day and weather effects.
For simplicity, I've removed night fighting and any rule that required a compass!
I made some best guess rule changes to conform with DBA 3 but these have not been playtested so I would be interested in your thoughts.
Cheers
Jim
Edit: New version below
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Post by stevie on Apr 27, 2018 15:06:36 GMT
Excellent work Jim. You know, you could add directional effects (like having the sun or dust being blown into the troops eyes if facing a certain direction). Just measure the distance from the closest front corner to the generating table edge, then measure the distance to the other front corner. If the difference between the two measurements is more than say a ¼ base width, then the element is not facing directly into the weather effect. For example: the nearest corner is 300mm from the weather table edge, but the furthest corner is under 310mm. Therefore, the element is affected. Could mean that high winds are blowing dust in their eyes in the right conditions. Or that the sun on the bound after dawn (sunrise) or the bound before dusk (sunset) is shining right in their faces. Of course, players will try to avoid these effects by advancing at an angle towards the weather edge… …but elements still have to line-up, giving the troops with the wind/sun behind them an advantage, if they time it right. Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018
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Post by jim1973 on Apr 28, 2018 14:19:31 GMT
Thanks Stevie.
The original DBM rules have direction rules. There are risks of dazzle if facing due east near dawn or due west at dusk. You can also change the wind direction and shooting is penalised in strong winds unless within 45 degrees of the wind direction. Then there are also night fighting rules...
I chose to leave them out. Mainly because I think DBA players are looking for a 1 hour game and probably don't want to spend 30 minutes figuring out which way the wind is blowing. I tried to keep the rules that could add a few more tactical problems for the players to deal with but could be determined within 5-10 minutes of set up.
I've always felt DBA would be enhanced with some sort of strategic back story for the pick up games. That way "weaker" defending armies may have a legitimate, historical reason to sit in bad going and wait for the invader to come on.
Interestingly, DBMM has and extra climactic region (Cold,Cool, Warm, Dry, Tropical), which I picked up looking at the DBMM army lists (fantastic resource even if I never play the game) to get the regions for the DBA lists. I'd be interested in the time/weather rules Phil developed for DBMM as I think he had a clean canvas to work. I may have to get them just to read Phil's ideas.
Playtesting so far has almost always lead to mid-to-late morning battles in good weather. Go figure! Just need to keep playing games. Early Carthiginians and Gauls set up at the moment.
Cheers
Jim
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Post by jim1973 on Feb 6, 2019 12:20:21 GMT
Time and weather rules for DBA 3 v1.1.docx (18.8 KB) Hi all. I've updated this file to incorporate DBMM climate groups and rules/thoughts. This would make the DBMM army lists and the DBA lists comparable. I've made some alterations to make them DBA friendly (e.g. eliminating night fights and wind direction). I've also put a QRF table at the end to help identify quickly which rules if any would need top be considered for a given climate/season/weather score. This allows those interested to quickly identify what they need to look at without digging through the DBx style rules. Let me know if anyone uses them, particularly campaign players. Cheers Jim PS Forum so full I couldn't upload 18kb file. Had to delete an old photo of my Thracian fort.
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Post by timurilank on Nov 1, 2020 7:14:04 GMT
View AttachmentHi all. I've updated this file to incorporate DBMM climate groups and rules/thoughts. This would make the DBMM army lists and the DBA lists comparable. I've made some alterations to make them DBA friendly (e.g. eliminating night fights and wind direction). I've also put a QRF table at the end to help identify quickly which rules if any would need top be considered for a given climate/season/weather score. This allows those interested to quickly identify what they need to look at without digging through the DBx style rules. Let me know if anyone uses them, particularly campaign players. Cheers Jim PS Forum so full I couldn't upload 18kb file. Had to delete an old photo of my Thracian fort. I was preparing to do the same thing but I noticed you made the effort. Good work, thank you. |
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Post by jim1973 on Nov 1, 2020 9:35:13 GMT
View AttachmentHi all. I've updated this file to incorporate DBMM climate groups and rules/thoughts. This would make the DBMM army lists and the DBA lists comparable. I've made some alterations to make them DBA friendly (e.g. eliminating night fights and wind direction). I've also put a QRF table at the end to help identify quickly which rules if any would need top be considered for a given climate/season/weather score. This allows those interested to quickly identify what they need to look at without digging through the DBx style rules. Let me know if anyone uses them, particularly campaign players. Cheers Jim PS Forum so full I couldn't upload 18kb file. Had to delete an old photo of my Thracian fort. I was preparing to do the same thing but I noticed you made the effort. Good work, thank you. I recently updated them, removing some things like dawn and dusk effects as it didn't seem worth it for the added complexity. I'm not sure if stevie has had a chance to upload them to the wiki. The basic aim was to occasionally have to fight to a time limit and occasionally find that the terrain you so carefully planned now helps your opponent. I'd love to see how you find them and what improvements you can see. Cheers Jim |
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Post by timurilank on Nov 1, 2020 10:03:23 GMT
jim1973,
At page 2 you state:
“Dusk, Dawn and certain weather conditions restrict visibility…” and continue listing the consequences.
Other than this I do not find anything else.
This looks fine.
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Post by jim1973 on Nov 1, 2020 13:43:27 GMT
That's version 1.2. PM me and I'll send you ver 1.3. It's very similar but dawn and dusk are removed and the daylight hours rounded off. See which one you like better.
Cheers
Jim
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Post by turniptom on Apr 15, 2024 11:39:39 GMT
Hey Jim,
I thought I'd reply here. I found a copy of your weather rules but I'm not sure which version it is.
I didn't entirely understand them sorry.
As an example, and considering I've just started a Wars of the Roses campaign it seems appropriate, would snow have the following rules:
Reduces visibility - Shooting range for Artillery and Bow reduced to 2BW.
Elements outside of Command Distance cannot move.
Restricts movement - All tactical moves cost 2 PIPs unless it involves the General’s element.
No element can move more than 2BW.
Combat disadvantage if shooting - -1 Tactical factor.
1. What does Tactical Factor mean?
2. At the Battle of Towton, which was fought in a snow storm, archery was still effective in causing casualties before the men at arms clashed. I'm concerned that although I understand why ranges are reduced, that melee troops will arrive before much damage if any can be caused.
Otherwise, good work and I look forward to trying these out.
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Post by jim1973 on Apr 25, 2024 0:44:05 GMT
Hey Jim, I thought I'd reply here. I found a copy of your weather rules but I'm not sure which version it is. I didn't entirely understand them sorry. As an example, and considering I've just started a Wars of the Roses campaign it seems appropriate, would snow have the following rules: Reduces visibility - Shooting range for Artillery and Bow reduced to 2BW. Elements outside of Command Distance cannot move. Restricts movement - All tactical moves cost 2 PIPs unless it involves the General’s element. No element can move more than 2BW. Combat disadvantage if shooting - -1 Tactical factor. 1. What does Tactical Factor mean? 2. At the Battle of Towton, which was fought in a snow storm, archery was still effective in causing casualties before the men at arms clashed. I'm concerned that although I understand why ranges are reduced, that melee troops will arrive before much damage if any can be caused. Otherwise, good work and I look forward to trying these out. Thanks for having a look at these! Tactical factors is the term Phil Barker uses for the combat modifiers such as up hill, bad going, etc (see page 11 of the original purple book as a sub section of RESOLVING SHOOTING OR CLOSE COMBAT). As for archery during snow storms, I am no expert on archery, nor, as an Australian, on snow (though I spent a year in Canada and got a very good lesson). But from the Annals of Wikipedia it seems that the Yorkists had an advantage from the wind of the blizzard and the Lancastrians a disadvantage. I felt wind direction was one step too far for DBA. But you could easily add it by rolling a die to choose a direction and penalising any shooting within 90 degrees of "into the wind". Let me know how you go. Cheers Jim |
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Post by saxonred on Apr 25, 2024 5:55:08 GMT
As a DBA gamer and an archer I feel able to comment.
The wind is more likely to affect your shooting when it's against you than when it's behind you. Using the wind to give you more distance is very hard to judge and often affects accuracy.
If you wanted to use wind as a factor for shooting in a battle then keep the rules as they are for the wind behind you but maybe deduct 1bw for a strong wind in your face.
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Post by turniptom on Apr 25, 2024 7:08:30 GMT
Thus could work. With Towton is was the wind blowing in the Lancastrian's faces which caused their arrows to fall short. youtu.be/0-QWsSXzcNg?si=dEeTfZf03lYmHjf4 in a very engaging account, and I think it's about 24.49mins where the wind makes its presence known. As a DBA gamer and an archer I feel able to comment. The wind is more likely to affect your shooting when it's against you than when it's behind you. Using the wind to give you more distance is very hard to judge and often affects accuracy. If you wanted to use wind as a factor for shooting in a battle then keep the rules as they are for the wind behind you but maybe deduct 1bw for a strong wind in your face. |
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Post by turniptom on Apr 25, 2024 7:11:16 GMT
Thanks for having a look at these! Tactical factors is the term Phil Barker uses for the combat modifiers such as up hill, bad going, etc (see page 11 of the original purple book as a sub section of RESOLVING SHOOTING OR CLOSE COMBAT). As for archery during snow storms, I am no expert on archery, nor, as an Australian, on snow (though I spent a year in Canada and got a very good lesson). But from the Annals of Wikipedia it seems that the Yorkists had an advantage from the wind of the blizzard and the Lancastrians a disadvantage. I felt wind direction was one step too far for DBA. But you could easily add it by rolling a die to choose a direction and penalising any shooting within 90 degrees of "into the wind". Let me know how you go. Cheers Jim I've used them for each of my WotR battles. We had snow, rain and fog; and all made significant difference to how the battle played out. I think it was House Rules where I posted more. |
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