|
|
Post by bob on Jul 10, 2016 4:06:21 GMT
I was recently asked if mounted solid bow should get side support from solid blades. I could think of no reason that this should not be done. Can any one?
|
|
|
|
Post by lkmjbc on Jul 11, 2016 14:52:00 GMT
I was recently asked if mounted solid bow should get side support from solid blades. I could think of no reason that this should not be done. Can any one? Nope... they get side support. Joe Collins |
|
|
|
Post by zygul on Jul 30, 2016 10:13:58 GMT
I was recently asked if mounted solid bow should get side support from solid blades. I could think of no reason that this should not be done. Can any one? Nope... they get side support. Joe Collins You are wrong. Mounted infantry are classified as Mtd-X (page 5). Mtd-X are not fast or solid because only pure infantry elements are defined as fast/solid. Thus Mtd-X cannot receive flank support. |
|
|
|
Post by timurilank on Jul 30, 2016 15:10:20 GMT
Interesting point and welcome to Fanaticus Zygul.
Page 3, paragraph 3,line three:
“A very few armies have mounted infantry (prefixed by “Mtd”). These are on larger bases with their mounts, but remain foot and differ in that in good going they have the same tactical move as knights an can move more than once per bound. “
Returning to page 5 you will note Mounted Infantry can be based as 3 or 4 foot figures + mount.
IV/74 Free Company & Armagnac list is a fine example of mixing the two having both knights that dismount as 4Bd and English archers (Mtd-4Lb), the latter can take advantage of side support.
|
|
|
|
Post by zygul on Jul 30, 2016 21:43:34 GMT
Interesting point and welcome to Fanaticus Zygul.
Page 3, paragraph 3,line three:
“A very few armies have mounted infantry (prefixed by “Mtd”). These are on larger bases with their mounts, but remain foot and differ in that in good going they have the same tactical move as knights an can move more than once per bound. “
Returning to page 5 you will note Mounted Infantry can be based as 3 or 4 foot figures + mount.
IV/74 Free Company & Armagnac list is a fine example of mixing the two having both knights that dismount as 4Bd and English archers (Mtd-4Lb), the latter can take advantage of side support.
If Mtd-X is not actually an element classification but simply a shorthand for any and all possible mounted infantry types such as Mtd-4bd, Mtd-4LB and so on then you and Joe Collins are right and flank support is allowed. However if, as I argued, Mtd-X is a unique classification differentiating it from normal infantry then, while 'remaining foot', it is neither fast or solid foot and so is ineligible for flank support. Perhaps it can be clarified in the next FAQ. |
|
|
|
Post by lkmjbc on Jul 30, 2016 23:06:30 GMT
If Mtd-X is not actually an element classification but simply a shorthand for any and all possible mounted infantry types such as Mtd-4bd, Mtd-4LB and so on then you and Joe Collins are right and flank support is allowed. However if, as I argued, Mtd-X is a unique classification differentiating it from normal infantry then, while 'remaining foot', it is neither fast or solid foot and so is ineligible for flank support. Perhaps it can be clarified in the next FAQ. Zygul: I think indeed that this may be an interesting topic to cover in the FAQ. Weirdly, I thought I remembered it coming up. I actually checked the FAQ to be sure it hadn't been answered. I thought that it had...That of course is not the case. We have always played Mounted infantry as the corresponding foot type... you obviously haven't.... This makes the question prime FAQ material. Joe Collins |
|
|
|
Post by Haardrada on Jul 31, 2016 8:17:09 GMT
Maybe the FAQ could go a step further and provide a definative list of all troop types as foot or mounted, fast or solid if foot to clear any confusion?
Regards
Eddie
|
|
|
|
Post by zygul on Aug 1, 2016 11:19:14 GMT
Maybe the FAQ could go a step further and provide a definative list of all troop types as foot or mounted, fast or solid if foot to clear any confusion? Regards Eddie The ramifications of whether Mtd-X should be regarded as fast/solid goes farther than the side support issue because it has a significant impact on movement in rough/bad going. All non-infantry elements are restricted to 1BW movement in rough/bad going but classifying Mtd-X as fast would allow them to move 3BW in any going. This is clearly wrong because, apart from being imbalanced and overpowered (especially when taking into account that Mtd-X get the same subsequent moves as LH in good going), it defies logic: their horses can't ignore the movement restrictions imposed on all other mounted elements. Fortunately, the tactical moves rules on page 9 make a clear distinction between mounted infantry moves and 'fast' and 'solid' infantry moves indicating that Mtd-X cannot be considered as fast/solid. |
|
|
|
Post by medievalthomas on Aug 1, 2016 15:11:30 GMT
Mounted Inf is not a seperate troop type but a subclass of its listed type. Mtd-Longbow are therefore Longbow for all purposes except extra movement associated with Mtd etc. Unless a rule specifically excepts "Mtd" use the normal rules for that type of element in this case Longbow.
TomT
|
|
|
|
Post by sheffmark on Aug 25, 2016 13:58:46 GMT
If there is no Fast or Solid, why do the lists specify Mtd-3 or 4Bw for different armies?
(Scots Common Mtd-3Bw, Bugundian Mtd-4Lb)
|
|
|
|
Post by bob on Aug 26, 2016 17:22:50 GMT
I'm confused as to what the conclusion of all this discussions is. As noted above, mounted infantry are foot type. Mounted bow are clearly either fast or solid depending on how many foot figures on the base. They are somehow mounted Mtd in DBMM if anybody cares.
''MOUNTED INFANTRY Mtd-X Mtd 60-80 40-60 3-4 + mount ."
So mounted infantry can have either 3 or 4 foot figures on the base.
''Psiloi and foot that are listed as 3, 5 or 6 to a base are classed as “Fast” foot, others as “Solid” foot."
So if 3 foot figures, the element is fast: if 4 foot figures the element a solid.
|
|
|
|
Post by Simon on Aug 26, 2016 19:36:20 GMT
The ramifications of whether Mtd-X should be regarded as fast/solid goes farther than the side support issue because it has a significant impact on movement in rough/bad going. All non-infantry elements are restricted to 1BW movement in rough/bad going but classifying Mtd-X as fast would allow them to move 3BW in any going. This is clearly wrong because, apart from being imbalanced and overpowered (especially when taking into account that Mtd-X get the same subsequent moves as LH in good going), it defies logic: their horses can't ignore the movement restrictions imposed on all other mounted elements. Fortunately, the tactical moves rules on page 9 make a clear distinction between mounted infantry moves and 'fast' and 'solid' infantry moves indicating that Mtd-X cannot be considered as fast/solid.
I had always imagined that when moving in bad/rough terrain, mounted infantry had left their mounts behind - perhaps explaining why they are killed in bad going if outscored.
Simon
|
|
|
|
Post by bob on Aug 28, 2016 17:26:49 GMT
I don't understand what you are reading regarding movement that lets you say mounted infantry, and particularly mounted bows, are neither fast nor solid. The movement rules make a clear distinction between fast mounted bows (Mtd-3Bw) and solid mounted bows (Mtd-4Bw).
4 BW If Light Horse, Cavalry or Scythed Chariots and only in good going.
3 BW If Knights, Elephants, Camelry or any mounted infantry and only in good going, or if “Fast” foot in any going.
2 BW If “Solid” Auxilia or “Solid” Warband in any going, or if other “Solid” foot and only in good going.
1 BW If any troops other than “Fast” foot, Auxilia or Warband and in bad or rough going for any part of the move (except that Artillery and War Wagons cannot deploy or move at all off-road in bad going).
Clearly all mounted infantry, there are only mounted bows, move 3BW in good going. fast mounted infantry, those with 3 figures on the base also move 3BW in any going. Any troops other then fast, which would include solid mounted Bows, that is those with 4 figures on the base, move one BW in rough or bad going.
|
|
|
|
Post by zygul on Aug 29, 2016 10:16:06 GMT
I don't understand what you are reading regarding movement that lets you say mounted infantry, and particularly mounted bows, are neither fast nor solid. The movement rules make a clear distinction between fast mounted bows (Mtd-3Bw) and solid mounted bows (Mtd-4Bw). 4 BW If Light Horse, Cavalry or Scythed Chariots and only in good going. 3 BW If Knights, Elephants, Camelry or any mounted infantry and only in good going, or if “Fast” foot in any going. 2 BW If “Solid” Auxilia or “Solid” Warband in any going, or if other “Solid” foot and only in good going. 1 BW If any troops other than “Fast” foot, Auxilia or Warband and in bad or rough going for any part of the move (except that Artillery and War Wagons cannot deploy or move at all off-road in bad going). Clearly all mounted infantry, there are only mounted bows, move 3BW in good going. fast mounted infantry, those with 3 figures on the base also move 3BW in any going. Any troops other then fast, which would include solid mounted Bows, that is those with 4 figures on the base, move one BW in rough or bad going. You need to study and understand page 5 as that is what I am reading. Mounted Infantry are classified as Mtd-X with the additional clarification that this is Mtd in DBMM (so not a foot element). Mtd-X is not listed as fast or solid. Mtd-3Bw is not listed as a fast element. Mtd-4Bw is not listed as a solid element. An element that is not listed as fast or solid is not fast or solid. |
|
|
|
Post by Simon on Aug 29, 2016 16:04:50 GMT
I think page 5 is more about basing. Page 3 has the main info - particularly para 3. Para 2 also defines what counts as Mounted and you will note that this does not include Mounted-X.
Cheers
Simon
|
|
