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Post by constabledavid on Oct 25, 2017 19:36:53 GMT
In DBA3.0 the army list II/64 mentions Roman cloaks in "russus", it then goes on to describe it as "yellow-brown".
Now all the sights I have used to check this say red (I assume russet?).
Does anybody know this colour, and what it is, I use CdA paints, but could probably get another make if I need to.
David Constable
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Post by Simon on Oct 25, 2017 21:22:11 GMT
I have Russet apples in my orchard - and they are a yellow brown colour. I have also seen the colour described as reddish brown.
Simon
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Post by constabledavid on Oct 26, 2017 12:44:18 GMT
Thanks Simon.
I buy Russets when available round the corner, when he can he gets locally grown stuff.
But like you that is not what the colour seems to be, is it a case that "red-brown" not "yellow-brown" was meant, or is it that "russus" was not derived from a red dye.
Will have to try looking for Roman cloaks and see what I can find on the internet.
David Constable
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Post by constabledavid on Oct 26, 2017 17:00:40 GMT
Having looked at the descriptions, and in some cases pictures of roman cloaks (paintings etc.), it looks like a "yellow-brown" makes sense, so "Russet apple" not red is correct. The general description varies but for a waterproof cloak then sheep skin, unwashed and unbleached is a good start, it might start off-white, but as it gets dirtier it will darken. If the cloak does not particularly need to be waterproof then unbleached cloth washed occasionally would be OK.
David Constable
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Post by menacussecundus on Oct 26, 2017 18:36:10 GMT
David,
Graham Sumner's "Roman Military Dress" quotes Isidore of Seville who lived in the 7th century AD - so not hardly an eye-witness and apparently "not always considered to be very reliable". For what it is worth, Isidore wrote that there was a dye called "russata" in Roman times, which the Greeks called "Phoenicea" (hence the Phoenicians, who traded a dark red/purple dye) and in Isidore's time was called "coccina" (possibly a cognate with cochineal if the bugs are named after the colour of the dye they produce, so a crimson or scarlet colour).
Flicking quickly through, there are references to depictions of cavalry wearing both yellow-brown cloaks and red cloaks, so I think you're reasonably safe with either.
Denis
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Post by constabledavid on Oct 28, 2017 9:42:35 GMT
Thanks, 7th century is another few hundred years on, but might in part explain the problem, the Byzantine/Romans used Greek (most of the time), now if in Byzantine Greek it is different, then we could arrive at red, so I would suspect in northern climes of Europe waterproof sheep skins, in the East cloth, possibly with officers and elite troops using red.
In Latin it would appear "russus" is red, however, in late Latin (probably our period) "russeta" means rough wool cloth. So probably it should say "russeta" not "russus".
David Constable
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Post by constabledavid on Oct 28, 2017 9:51:47 GMT
Looking further at Russet Apples there is a very big problem over using "russet" as a colour.
The number of varieties means the colour of a Russet Apple varies from yellow-brown to red-green. In Worcestershire (Vale of Evesham) my local colour is yellow-brown.
David Constable
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Post by menacussecundus on Oct 28, 2017 11:07:14 GMT
Buy local, David. Go for a yellow-brown. I would use Valejo Cork Brown as a base and then topcoat with Yellow Ochre. I think the Valejo Yellow Ochre equates to Festering Brown in the CdA range.
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Post by constabledavid on Oct 28, 2017 11:34:49 GMT
I think so, it makes sense, I wonder how many people have bothered to follow the trail, name to colour, then shade of colour, and did they in the end go for yellow-brown.
I was tempted to follow-up with sheep types, but at the moment I am leaving that, if my Late Romans end up with cloaks I shall follow Roman paintings and use yellow-brown.
David Constable
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