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Post by Tony Aguilar on Oct 25, 2017 12:00:52 GMT
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Post by timurilank on Oct 25, 2017 13:53:45 GMT
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Post by Deano on Oct 25, 2017 18:16:29 GMT
I'm enjoying these, keep them coming.
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Post by Baldie on Oct 26, 2017 7:30:49 GMT
Really like the reports, terrain ideas are great
Keep em coming and thanks for your efforts in creating the vids.
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Post by wjhupp on Oct 27, 2017 15:40:48 GMT
Tony,
Your comments seem to indicated that the Cathaginians have trouble beating the Romans. Is that a legacy issue?
Considering the relative 'importance' of Punic War armies in the overall scheme of ancient armies, any thoughts on the historical accuracy of the normal Carthage-Rome results? For me it is still an open question.
I do like the way the Ps were used in your battle. What was your battle plan? Seems like the scrubby terrain got in your way of making a right hook.
Was the elephant on the road for any reason?
Bill
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Post by Tony Aguilar on Oct 27, 2017 17:31:29 GMT
Tony, Your comments seem to indicated that the Cathaginians have trouble beating the Romans. Is that a legacy issue? Considering the relative 'importance' of Punic War armies in the overall scheme of ancient armies, any thoughts on the historical accuracy of the normal Carthage-Rome results? For me it is still an open question. I do like the way the Ps were used in your battle. What was your battle plan? Seems like the scrubby terrain got in your way of making a right hook. Was the elephant on the road for any reason? Bill What do you mean by "legacy issue?" You can see Mitch's comments as well RE: Rome vs. Carthage. If we played 10 games, I would suspect that Rome would win at least 7 of the times. The historical match up depended a lot on who was in command of either army. |
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Post by paddy649 on Oct 27, 2017 19:10:37 GMT
Tony,
Just watched your Punic Wars video. Loved it! Many thanks.
Carthage vs Polybian is one of those classic match ups and I agree that the Romans dominate. I'd estimate 60:40 rather than 70:30 but the sons of the she-wolf definitely have an advantage. I'd be interested if the stats bear that out.
Now I'll make myself really unpopular now by saying this but in a Later Carthage vs Polybian match up I reckon that Hannibal is best with the 2 Cav & 2 LH option. Now I am fully aware that one of the reasons for playing DBA is using Elephants and I am the proud owner for Indian, Macedonian and Successor armies for that very reason. However, with the Carthaginians the 2 El option is hard to get working and the 1 El option means that your PIP priority is always "looking after Nellie." It may just be how they work with Wb and 4 Ax - but it is just not as easy as getting Els to work with 6 x 4Pk or with 3 x 4Lb. However, with 2 Cav & 2 LH the Carthaginians can over match the paltry Roman Cav on BOTH flanks with their overlaps; then however good Blade are against Sp or Ax, they don't fare well with LH in their rear! Meanwhile the Cav take out the Camp.
Hopefully that will spark a debate!
Paddy
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Post by Tony Aguilar on Oct 27, 2017 19:31:17 GMT
Tony, Just watched your Punic Wars video. Loved it! Many thanks. Carthage vs Polybian is one of those classic match ups and I agree that the Romans dominate. I'd estimate 60:40 rather than 70:30 but the sons of the she-wolf definitely have an advantage. I'd be interested if the stats bear that out. Now I'll make myself really unpopular now by saying this but in a Later Carthage vs Polybian match up I reckon that Hannibal is best with the 2 Cav & 2 LH option. Now I am fully aware that one of the reasons for playing DBA is using Elephants and I am the proud owner for Indian, Macedonian and Successor armies for that very reason. However, with the Carthaginians the 2 El option is hard to get working and the 1 El option means that your PIP priority is always "looking after Nellie." It may just be how they work with Wb and 4 Ax - but it is just not as easy as getting Els to work with 6 x 4Pk or with 3 x 4Lb. However, with 2 Cav & 2 LH the Carthaginians can over match the paltry Roman Cav on BOTH flanks with their overlaps; then however good Blade are against Sp or Ax, they don't fare well with LH in their rear! Meanwhile the Cav take out the Camp. Hopefully that will spark a debate! Paddy I agreed that if I had to play L. Carthage I would go with NO elephants for the pip drain. Although if there is this much interest on this particular subject, it might be a good reason for a fresh post.  |
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Post by Les1964 on Oct 28, 2017 7:29:52 GMT
"I agreed that if I had to play L. Carthage I would go with NO elephants for the pip drain"
I don't remember Mitch paying 2 pips to move the elephant , just lucky in that game ? 🤔
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Post by Tony Aguilar on Oct 28, 2017 10:17:02 GMT
"I agreed that if I had to play L. Carthage I would go with NO elephants for the pip drain" I don't remember Mitch paying 2 pips to move the elephant , just lucky in that game ? 🤔 The first time it only cost one as it was the first bound of the game. When he moved the elephant again, he group moved with the warband and paid two pips for that move. |
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Post by wjhupp on Oct 28, 2017 21:59:03 GMT
Tony: What do you mean by "legacy issue?"
> I just mean that this seems to be a sympton of DBA going back over the years (or a criticism I heard from others when looking at what rules to use for ancients.)
Tony: You can see Mitch's comments as well RE: Rome vs. Carthage.
> Sorry, not sure I know where this is.
Tony: If we played 10 games, I would suspect that Rome would win at least 7 of the times.
The historical match up depended a lot on who was in command of either army.
> I agree the generals make a huge difference, I'm just thinking if all else is equal should the result should be more like 5 in 10 rather than 7 in 10? I also am thinking that some of the isues may be due to the squeezing the army into 12 elements. Or to put it another way, that a Big Battle version of Carthage Vs. Rome would feel a bit more in line with the hisory of the battles. Maybe it is just the variety of troop types on the Carthaginian side squeezes them more than the Romans.
Bill
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Post by Les1964 on Oct 28, 2017 22:53:49 GMT
"The first time it only cost one as it was the first bound of the game. When he moved the elephant again, he group moved with the warband and paid two pips for that move." Yep you are correct , having just watched it again . Still it was only once in the game .  |
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Post by martini on Oct 29, 2017 18:13:57 GMT
I have enjoyed these videos and, although I've been playing DBA on and off for some years, I have gained new knowledge. For example, I had not realised that Ps don't count as being overlapped unless the overlapping element is forward of the Ps front edge.
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Post by Tony Aguilar on Oct 30, 2017 11:16:46 GMT
Tony: What do you mean by "legacy issue?" > I just mean that this seems to be a sympton of DBA going back over the years (or a criticism I heard from others when looking at what rules to use for ancients.) Tony: You can see Mitch's comments as well RE: Rome vs. Carthage. > Sorry, not sure I know where this is. Tony: If we played 10 games, I would suspect that Rome would win at least 7 of the times. The historical match up depended a lot on who was in command of either army. > I agree the generals make a huge difference, I'm just thinking if all else is equal should the result should be more like 5 in 10 rather than 7 in 10? I also am thinking that some of the isues may be due to the squeezing the army into 12 elements. Or to put it another way, that a Big Battle version of Carthage Vs. Rome would feel a bit more in line with the hisory of the battles. Maybe it is just the variety of troop types on the Carthaginian side squeezes them more than the Romans. Bill Not sure about your first question as DBA is the only set on ancient rules I have ever played. I am originally a WW2 gamer. Mitch's comments are at the end of the video where he wins as Carthage and is completely surprised. He is not surprised to win (he wins damn near half the time - I have played him 685 times and he has won 47.15% of the time) just that it was devastating with Carthage. |
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Post by wjhupp on Oct 30, 2017 21:02:02 GMT
OK, thanks Tony. Love your stats!
Bill
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