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Post by ronisan on Nov 6, 2017 17:55:00 GMT
Yes  ... Shooting? ... Missed!  |
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Post by stevie on Nov 6, 2017 22:06:28 GMT
LOL.. Stevie has quite a lot of last things to say... Quick suggestion... I would actually open up a new thread to continue this discussion. I fear it will eventually get lost due to the title. Certainly a year from now it will be obscured by the title. Joe Collins Oops! You are quite right Joe. (“But sir, sir, it’s his fault…he keeps arguing with me!”  ) See Ronald, you’ve got me into trouble now. I just need to answer Ronald’s last post, then no more in this thread (honest!). Stevie ... Stevie ...  the contact of the red group is not legal (corner to edge is not allowed! Page 20, figure 10). Let's stick to the rules! You have to have enough movement allowance to get into position "own front-edge to enemy flank-edge with own front corner to enemy front corner"! And the blue element has to turn at the end of the bound, but only if it is not contacted on its front edge by a different red element during that bound! Ah, Ronald… Ronald… Yes, let’s please stick to the rules. The reason the elements in diagram 10 are not allowed to make contact is because they are single elements that don’t have enough movement to conform and lined-up. Had they been moving groups contacting single elements they won’t have to line-up…the single elements would. Or have you forgotten page 9 paragraph 10:- “A single element contacted by a group conforms to it…” What’s the point of the moving group going through all the hassle of lining-up to a single element when it is the single element’s responsibility to do all the conforming? Anyway, as Joe suggested, I’ve started a new thread on this subject. See you there matey. Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, including the latest June 2017 FAQ and the Quick Reference Sheets from the Society of Ancients:-
fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
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Post by ronisan on Nov 7, 2017 22:05:04 GMT
Ah, Ronald… Ronald… Yes, let’s please stick to the rules. The reason the elements in diagram 10 are not allowed to make contact is because they are single elements that don’t have enough movement to conform and lined-up. Had they been moving groups contacting single elements they won’t have to line-up…the single elements would. But only if own front edge contacts enemy front edge!
There is no need to line up if own front edge contacts enemy side edge or rear edge because ... if the contact is legal, the attacking element is already lined up!
See page 20, figure 9a.
And the element being attacked has to wait until the end of the bound, to see if it is also contacted in its front. If not ... it may turn to the contactor.
Or have you forgotten page 9 paragraph 10:- “A single element contacted by a group conforms to it…” What’s the point of the moving group going through all the hassle of lining-up to a single element when it is the single element’s responsibility to do all the conforming? Anyway, as Joe suggested, I’ve started a new thread on this subject. See you there matey. Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, including the latest June 2017 FAQ and the Quick Reference Sheets from the Society of Ancients:-
fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
Hello stevie, I think you're still playing 'contacting' "corner-to-edge" or "edge-to-corner" - but that is not allowed any more in DBA 3.0! I think you play like my picture "A1/A2". But DBA 3.0 is played like my picture "B1/B2", isn't it? (If the group of Auxilia would be "solid", they can't attack in the pike's flank as a group! But if they are "fast" (oops ... typo error, yellow line should read 3BW!), they'll have enough movement to reaach the legal position. See page 9 paragraph 9: "... (c) in front edge to side edge contact with front corners in contact, ...") Cheers, Ronald. Attachments:
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Post by ronisan on Nov 7, 2017 22:42:48 GMT
... and stevie, your "A single element contacted by a group conforms to it…” is only to be considered, if we talk about front edge contacting front edge. See my pictures "C1/C2" (group contacting a group) and "D1/D2" (group contacting a single element).
"One party moves the minimum distance to so conform. Contactors conform using their tactical move, but an extra sideways slide of less than 1 BW is allowed if this is necessary to conform after contacting an enemy front edge."
Cheers, Ronald. Attachments:
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Post by ronisan on Nov 8, 2017 7:54:48 GMT
Hi Stevie, I think I have to apologize ...? 'mea culpa'. Is it possilbe, that the rules say (in a "very hidden way" for non-native speaker like me  ), that If a group contacts a single element, it is possible to contact it just by front-corner to enemy edge or front-edge to enemy-corner. (?)
Because ... that's the only situation, where the other (non-moving) party moves to conform? So ... my Picture A1/A2 would be correct, as long as the pikes are a single element. But if the pikes where part of a group (!), the Ax would have to conform! And if the Ax where "fast", B1/B2 would be correct? But if the Ax where "solid", only the right element of the Ax-group would be able to contact the flank edge of the pikes? See also here: D1/D2 (group contacting group) E1/E2 (group contacting single element) Am I on the path to DBA-enlightment  Cheers, Ronald. Attachments:
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Post by martin on Nov 8, 2017 8:17:08 GMT
Hi Stevie, I think I have to apologize ...? 'mea culpa'. Is it possilbe, that the rules say (in a "very hidden way" for non-native speaker like me ), that If a group contacts a single element, it is possible to contact it just by front-corner to enemy edge or front-edge to enemy-corner. (?)
Because ... that's the only situation, where the other (non-moving) party moves to conform? So ... my Picture A1/A2 would be correct, as long as the pikes are a single element. But if the pikes where part of a group (!), the Ax would have to conform! And if the Ax where "fast", B1/B2 would be correct? But if the Ax where "solid", only the right element of the Ax-group would be able to contact the flank edge of the pikes? Cheers, Ronald. I'm intrigued, as a couple of my gaming friends are unsure of the rule now. The single element in good going (or not fully in rough/bad) which is contacted AT ANY POINT having to immediately conform is a rule which applies in the similar Hott rules set, even with a diagram to that effect (as far as I can remember). Is this "single element contacted in any way" conforming how others play the rule (as in Ronisan's A1-A-2 pic)?? Martin |
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Post by ronisan on Nov 8, 2017 8:57:59 GMT
Well, Martin, I'm intrigued also by this whole text of rulebook/page 9 "Moving into conact with enemy". After being contacted like in A1, the Pk first conform with their flank edge + front corner contacting the front edge + front corner of the Ax. At the end of the bound (if there will be no additional contact on the Pk front edge!) ... the Pk turn to front edge to front edge contact ... ? Cheers. Ronald. Attachments:
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Post by stevie on Nov 8, 2017 9:39:16 GMT
Damn you Ronald! I’ve just spent the last hour writing out a loooong speech, with convoluted diagrams, which I was going to post in a brand new thread requesting arbitration on this conforming matter. And yes Martin, I think Ronald’s last diagram (A1-A2) is correct, at least for a group contacting a single element. However, I don’t bother with the pike instantly lining-up it’s flank to the group, then wait for the end of the Movement Phase to actually turn it into full mutual front-edge contact. I think it's unnecessarily complicated. I like to speed things up and cut out the middle-man as it were and just instantly turn the single element on contact. But technically, a strict reading of the rules seems to indicate that Ronald’s diagram A1-A2 is correct. Mind you…contrary to popular belief…I’m not always right you know… Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, including the latest June 2017 FAQ and the Quick Reference Sheets from the Society of Ancients:-
fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
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Post by ronisan on Nov 8, 2017 9:46:08 GMT
Hi Stevie, I'm deeply sorry I'm not sure either ... still on my way to DBA-enlightment But thinking about my last posts ... there is a chance that my problem with figure 13d (you remember last month?) will vanish. But all this should be placed in the thread 'Contact and Conforming' - shouldn't it? Could anybody of the admins be so kind to move it? Cheers. Ronald. |
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... Shooting? ... Missed! 
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