I/48 Thracians ?

My Thracians are all 3Ax. So no, 4Ax is not necessary.
However, Thracians are tricky to win with and mine lose more than they win. They have too much Cv and LH to plaster the table with Bad Going, but the Ax is in a bad situation against heavy foot in the open. It is, of course, worse if the Thracians do not get to choose terrain.
But 3Ax is fast and that often helps. One can try to isolate parts of the enemy army, get into that parts flank and destroy 4 elements before the enemy gets into a position to really deal out pain with his heavies. Also, the Thracians have enough LH to go for the enemy camp, if there is even the slightest possibility for that.

Overall, a fun, underdog army.

Thracians are quite a challenge ("weak" would be the pessimist term for that).
But they are fun and they look good. And very satisfying to win with ^^

Exactly

Also, the Thracians are Aggression 1, which helps a lot. Against historical opponents, they tend to defend.

And, as mentioned above, Ax is not that bad as a battle line in the open. Just do not expect them to win against Sp or Bd at equal terms. But if you can outflank your enemy, or have a longer battle line, and (most important) also pressure the enemy somewhere else, it can work out.

If terrain allows, the Thracian LH are very handy for harrassing the enemies rear, ideally also taking his camp.

I played a Thracians vs Early Athenian Hoplite game over the weekend - just to see how difficult they were to play. Must say I was pleasantly surprised. Aggression 1 allowed them to defend and with 4 difficult hills in each of the 4 quadrants with 1-2BW channels between them the Thracians got a relatively easy win. I played the 3 LH option with the 3Kn Gen which allowed the LH to get round the back and cause havoc while poor PIP dice merely necessitated the Ax and Ps sitting quietly in the Bad Going to wait for better dice. The Hoplite Sp had the choice of either being outclassed in BG or static and useless in GG and possibly with the risk of a charge by the 3Kn Gen.

I then played them against the Thessalians (with the 3 Cav option) where the Thessalian aggression of 1 led to battle being fought on Arable plains. Here the Thracians were dominated by the Thessalian Cav and absolutely destroyed by Sp in GG. However, I really like the Thessalian army - it seems to have a good balance between solidity and mobility. I regularly see this army winning against Alexandrian Macedonian Armies. Paul - do your stats from NAGS Empire (Pacific Northwest) breakdown the I/52 Early Hoplite Greek and II/5 Later Hoplite Greek lists into their various sub-options? I'd be interested to see if they bear out my experience?

So choose Thracians to win their home games but note that they won't travel well.

Yes, Andy Hooper's COMPENDIVM (results of all games in The Greater NAGS Empire since 2002) does break out the EHG and LHG by city-state. This is gonna chew up a LOT of bandwidth, so my apologies in advance.  The weird pairings, such as Thebans vs. Teutonics, understandably, are from tourney play.  

Notes: FW = Foreign Wars, e.g. EHG vs. Skythian. CW = Civil Wars, e.g. EHG vs. EHG. --  For entertainment purposes only.  Your results may vary.  (Grins.)

I/52 Early Hoplite Greek, 680 – 450 BC
Combined Record: 76-75 (.503) (56-55 FW (.504), 20 CW), 151 total games

A: Argive, 680 – 450 BC
Record: 2-1 (.666) (0 CW), 3 total games
Victories: I/60 Early Achaemenid Persian (2)
Losses: I/52c Early Hoplite Greek/Thessalian

B: Spartan, 668 – 450 BC
Record: 10-15 (.400) (0 CW), 25 total games
Victories: I/43 Kimmerian, Skythian or Early Hu, I/52i Early Hoplite Greek/Italiot, I/60 Early Achaemenid Persian (3), II/5b Later Hoplite Greek/Athenian, II/32 Later Carthaginian, II45c Sicilian & Italian Slave Revolts/Spartacus, III/76 Papal Italian
Losses: I/23 Vedic Indian, I/43a Kimmerian, Skythian or Early Hu, I/51 Neo-Assyrian Later Sargonid, I/52d Early Hoplite Greek/Theban, I/52e Early Hoplite Greek/Athenian (2), I/52f Early Hoplite Greek/Athenian (2), I/52i Early Hoplite Greek/Italiot, I/53 Saitic Egyptian, II/5i Later Hoplite Greek/Others, II/31j Hellenistic Greek/Aitolian, II/40 Numidian & Early Moorish, II/56 Early Imperial Roman, III/72b Communal Italian/Sienna, IV/64 Medieval French

C: Thessaly, 668 – 450 BC
Record: 9-8 (.529) (0 CW), 17 total games
Victories: I/52a Early Hoplite Greek/Argive, I/52d Early Hoplite Greek/Theban, I/52f Early Hoplite Greek/Athenian, I/54 Early Macedonian, I/60 Early Achaemenid Persian (3), II/39c Ancient Spanish/Lusitanian, II/53 Ancient British
Losses: I/52f Early Hoplite Greek/Athenian (3), I/52h Early Hoplite Greek/Phokian or Aitolian, II/5d Later Hoplite Greek/Athenian, II/25 Bosphoran, II/48 Mithradatic (2)

D: Theban, 668 – 450 BC
Record: 2-2 (.500) (0 CW), 4 total games
Victories: I/47 Illyrian, I/52b Early Hoplite Greek/Spartan, I/52f Early Hoplite Greek/Athenian
Losses: I/52c Early Hoplite Greek/Thessalyan, I/52h Early Hoplite Greek/Phokian or Aitolian

E: Athenian, 668 – 541 BC
Record: 4-5 (.444) (0 CW), 9 total games
Victories: I/48 Thracian, I/52b Early Early Hoplite Greek/Spartan (2), I/60 Early Achaemenid Persian
Losses: I/60 Early Achaemenid Persian, II/5h Later Hoplite Greek/Siciliot, II/9 Syracusan. II/11 Gallic, II/27 Pyrrhic Greek

F: Athenian, 540 – 450 BC
Record: 36-28 (.562) (34-26 FW (.566), 2 CW), 64 total games
Victories: I/22 New Kingdom Egyptian, I/47 Illyrian, I/48 Thracian (4), I/52b Early Hoplite Greek/Spartan (2), I/52c Early Hoplite Greek/ Thessalian (3), I/52f Early Hoplite Greek/Athenian (2), I/52i Early Hoplite Greek/Italiot or Siciliot, I/57 Etruscan League, I/60 Early Achaemenid Persian (19), II/12 Alexandrian Macedonian, II/78a Later Imperial Roman/West

Losses: I/52c Early Hoplite Greek/Thessalyan, I/52d Early Hoplite Greek/Theban, I/52f Early Hoplite Greek/Athenian (2), I/52g Early Hoplite Greek/Asiatic Greek, I/53 Saitic Egyptian, I/57 Etruscan League, I/60 Early Achaemenid Persian (16), II/3 Classical Indian, II/5f Later Hoplite Greek/Phokian, II/32 Later Carthaginian, II/67 Early Ostrogothic, Herul, Sciri or Taifali, III/41 Dog People & Pueblo Culture, IV/64 Medieval French

G: Asiatic Greek, 668 – 450 BC
Record: 4-7 (.363) (0 CW), 11 total games
Victories: I/24 Hittite Empire, I/48 Thracian, I/50 Lydian, I/52f Early Hoplite Greek/Athenian
Losses: I/24 Hittite Empire, I/50 Lydian, I/60 Early Achaemenid Persian (3), II/23b Later Pre-Islamic Arab/City (2)

H: Phokian or Aitolian, 668 – 450 BC
Record: 2-1 (.666) (0 CW), 3 total games
Victories: I/52c Early Hoplite Greek/Thessalian, I/52d Early Hoplite Greek/Theban
Losses: I/48 Thracian

I: Italiot or Siciliot, 668 – 450 BC
Record: 7-7 (.500) (0 CW), 14 total games
Victories: I/36 Italian Hill Tribes, I/52b Early Hoplite Greek/Spartan, I/55a Latin, Early Roman, Early Etruscan & Umbrian/Etruscan, I/55c Latin, Early Roman, Early Etruscan & Umbrian/Latin, I/57 Etruscan League, I/59 Tullian Roman, I/61 Early Carthaginian
Losses: I/52b Early Hoplite Greek/Spartan, I/52f Early Hoplite Greek/Athenian, I/55a Latin, Early Roman, Early Etruscan & Umbrian /Etruscan I/59 Tullian Roman, I/61 Early Carthaginian (2), II/13 Samnite



II/5 Later Hoplite Greek, 450 – 275 BC to 235 BC if Italiot or Siciliot)
Combined Record: 186-223 (.454) (107-144 FW (.426), 79 CW), 409 total games

A: Spartan, 450 – 275 BC
Record: 45-66 (.405) (42-63 FW (.400), 3 CW), 111 total games
Victories: I/48 Thracian (2), I/60b Early Achaemenid Persian (2), I/61 Early Carthaginian, II/5a Later Hoplite Greek/Spartan (3), II/5b Later Hoplite Greek/Athenian (12), II/5c Later Hoplite Greek/Theban, II/5d Later Hoplite Greek/Thessalian (2), II/5f Later Hoplite Greek/Phokian (3), II/6 Bithynian (3), II/7 Later Achaemenid Persian (5), II/12 Alexandrian Macedonian (5), II/16b Early Asiatic Successor/Demetrios (2), II/20 Ptolemaic, II/27 Pyrrhic Greek, III/54 Early Samurai, IV/81 Inca
Losses: I/2 Early Egyptian, I/43 Kimmerian, Skythian or Early Hu, I/60 Early Achaemenid Persian (2), II/5a Later Hoplite Greek/Spartan (3), II/5b Later Hoplite Greek/Athenian (19), II/5c Later Hoplite Greek/Theban (4), II/5d Later Hoplite Greek/Thessalian (4), II/5e Later Hoplite Greek Aitolian, , II/5f Later Hoplite Greek/Phokian, II/5h Later Hoplite Greek/Siciliot, II/6 Bithynia, II/7 Later Achaemenid Persian (6), II/9 Syracusan, II/10 Camillan Roman, II/12 Alexandrian Macedonian (6), II/19 Seleucid. II/27 Pyrrhic Greek (2), II/35 Later Macedonian, II/36a Graeco-Bactrian & Graeco-Indian, II/37 Parthian, II/40 Numidian & Early Moorish, II/49 Marian Roman (2), II/56 Early Imperial Roman, II/64a Middle Imperial Roman/West, IV/30 Teutonic Orders, IV/62 100 Years War English, IV/74 Free Company or Armagnac

B: Athenian, 450 – 275 BC
Record: 39-43 (.475) (38-42 FW (.475), 1 CW), 82 total games
Victories: I/48 Thracian, I/61 Early Carthaginian, I/62 Lykian, II/5a Later Hoplite Greek/Spartan (19), II/5b Later Hoplite Greek/Athenian, II/5d Later Hoplite Greek/Thessalian (3), II/5f Later Hoplite Greek/Phokian (2), II/7 Later Achaemenid Persian (7), II/9 Syracusan, II/12 Alexandrian Macedonian, II/17 Lysimachid, II/30 Galatian
Losses: I/48 Thracian (5), I/52b Early Hoplite Greek/Spartan, I/59 Tullian Roman, I/61 Early Carthaginian (2), II/5a Later Hoplite Greek/Spartan (12), II/5b Later Hoplite Greek/Athenian, II/5c Later Hoplite Greek/Theban, II/5d Later Hoplite Greek/Thessalian, II.5e Later Hoplite Greek/ Aitolian or Akarnanian, II.5f Later Hoplite Greek/Phokian (2), II/7 Later Achaemenid Persian (6), II/9 Syracusan, II/12 Alexandrian Macedonian (2), II/18b Macedonian Early Successor/Polyperchon, II/30 Galatian, II/33 Polybian Roman (3), II45c Sicilian & Italian Slave Revolts/Spartacus, II/74 Palmyran

C: Theban, 450 – 275 BC
Record: 20-13 (.606) (0 CW), 33 total games
Victories:I/48 Thracian, I/60 Early Achaemenid Persian (2), II/5a Later Hoplite Greek/Spartan (4), II/5b Later Hoplite Greek/Athenian, II/5d Later Hoplite Greek/Thessalian (3), II.5f Later Hoplite Greek/Phokian, II/5g Later Hoplite Greek/Italiot, II/7 Later Achaemenid Persian (3), II/9 Syracusan (2),II/16b Asiatic Early Successors/Demetrios, IV/30 Teutonic Order
Losses: I/53 Saitic Egyptian (2), II/5a Later Hoplite Greek/Spartan, II/5d Later Hoplite Greek/Thessalian (5), II/7 Later Achaemenid Persian, II/9 Syracusan, II/12 Alexandrian Macedonian, II/25 Bosporan, IV/1 Komnenan Byzantine

D: Thessalian, 450 – 275 BC
Record: 25-20 (.555) (24-19 FW (.558) 1 CW), 45 total games
Victories: I/26a Later Mycenaean/Achaian, I/47 Illyrian, I/48 Thracian (2), I/52c Early Hoplite Greek/ Thessalian, I/54 Early Macedonian, I/60 Early Achaemenid Persian, II/2 Mountain Indian, II/5a Later Hoplite Greek/Spartan (4), II/5b Later Hoplite Greek/Athenian, II/5c Later Hoplite Greek/Theban (5), II/5d Later Hoplite Greek/Thessalian, II/5h Later Hoplite Greek/Siciliot, II/7 Later Achaemenid Persian (3), II/15 Alexandrian Iperial, II/32 Later Carthaginian
Losses: I/26a Later Mycenaean/Achaian, I/53 Saitic Egyptian, II/3 Classical Indian (2), II/5a Later Hoplite Greek/Spartan (2), II/5b Later Hoplite Greek/Athenian (3), II/5c Later Hoplite Greek/Theban (3), II/5d Later Hoplite Greek/Thessalian, II/7 Later Achaemenid Persian (3), II/11 Gallic, II/37 Parthian, IV/74 Free Company or Armagnac, IV/81 Inca

E: Aitolian or Akarnanian, 450 – 275 BC
Record: 6-2 (.750) (0 CW), 8 total games
Victories: I/60 Early Achaemenid Persian, II/5a Later Hoplite Greek/Spartan, II/5b Later Hoplite Greek/Athenian, II/15 Alexandrian Imperial (2), II/18b Macedonian Early Successor/Polyperchon
Losses: I/60 Early Achaemenid Persian, II/18b Macedonian Early Successor/Polyperchon

F: Phokian, 450 – 275 BC
Record: 10-17 (.370) (0 CW), 27 total games
Victories: I/48 Thracian (2), I/52f Early Hoplite Greek/Athenian, II/5a Later Hoplite Greek/Spartan, II/5b Later Hoplite Greek/Athenian (2), II/12 Alexandrian Macedonian (4)
Losses: I/59 Tullian Roman, I/60 Early Achaemenid Persian, II/3 Classical Indian, II/5a Later Hoplite Greek/Spartan (3), II/5b Later Hoplite Greek/Athenian (2), II/5c Later Hoplite Greek/Theban, II/5i Later Hoplite Greek/Others, II/7 Later Achaemenid Persian, II/12 Alexandrian Macedonian (3), II/30 Galatian (2), II/37 Parthian

G: Italiot, 450 – 235 BC
Record: 18-34 (.346) (17-33 FW (.340), 1 CW), 52 total games
Victories: I/55b Early Roman, II/5g Later Hoplite Greek/Italiot, II/8a Campanian, Apulian, Bruttian or Lucanian/Bruttian or Lucanian (2), II/8b Campanian, Apulian, Bruttian or Lucanian/Campanian (4), II/8c Campanian, Apulian, Bruttian or Lucanian/Apulian (2), II/9 Syracusan (2), II/10 Camillan Roman (3), II/27 Pyrrhic, II/33 Polybian Roman
Losses: I/55c Latin, Early Roman, Early Etruscan & Umbrian/Latin, I/57 Etruscan League (6), I/61 Early Carthaginian, II/5c Later Hoplite Greek/Theban, II/5g Later Hoplite Greek/Italiot, II/5h Later Hoplite Greek/Siciliot, II/8a Campanian, Apulian, Bruttian or Lucanian/Bruttian or Lucanian (3), II/8b Campanian, Apulian, Bruttian or Lucanian/Campanian (2), II/9 Syracusan, II/10 Camillan Roman (3), II/13 Samnite (2), II/15 Alexandrian Imperial, II/27 Pyrrhic (5), II/33 Polybian Roman (4), II/56 Early Imperial Roman

H: Siciliot, 450 – 235 BC
Record: 5-6 (.454) (0 CW), 11 total games
Victories: I/52e Early Hoplite Greek/Athenian, II/5a Later Hoplite Greek/Spartan, II/5g Later Hoplite Greek/Italiot, II/10 Camillan Roman, II/33 Polybian Roman
Losses: I/46 Kushite Egyptian, I/61 Early Carthaginian, II/5d Later Hoplite Greek/Thessalian, II/5i Later Hoplite Greek/Others, II/10 Camillan Roman, II/32 Later Carthaginian

I: Others
Record: 16-23 (.410) (14-21 FW (.400), 2 CW), 39 total games
Victories: I/52b Early Hoplite Greek/Spartan, II/5f Later Hoplite Greek/Phokian, II/5h Later Hoplite Greek/Sicilian, II/5i Later Hoplite Greek/Others, II/7 Later Achaemenid Persian, II/16b Asiatic Early Successor/Demetrios (9), II/27 Pyrrhic Greek
Losses: I/43 Kimmerian Skythian or Early Hu, I/48 Thracian, II/5i Later Hoplite Greek/Others, II/6 Bithynian, II/12Alexandrian Macedonian, II/15 Alexandrian Imperial, II/16b Asiatic Early Successor/Demetrios (15), II/31j Hellenistic Greek/Aitolian

K: Spartans of Agesilaus (DBA 3.0)
Record: 1-0 (1.000) (0 CW), 1 total game
Victories: II/7 Later Achaemenid Persian
Losses:

K: Black Sea Greeks (DBA 3.0)
Record: 1-0 (1.000) (0 CW), 1 total game
Victories: II/15 Alexandrian Imperial
Losses:

But, so as not to veer too far off-topic on this thread about Thracians, here also are complete results for Thrace.

I/48 Thracian, 700 BC – 46 AD
Record: 37-48 (.435) (36-47 FW (.433), (1 CW), 85 total games

Victories: I/43 Skythian, Kimmerian or Early Hu (5), I/47 Illyrian (5), I/48 Thracian, I/52h Early Hoplite Greek/Phokian or Aitolian, I/54 Early Macedonian, I/60a Early Achaemenid Persian (2), II/5b Later Hoplite Greek/Athenian (5), II/5i Later Hoplite Greek/Others, II/11 Gallic (4), II/12 Alexandrian Macedonian (3), II/17 Lysimachid, II/19 Seleucid (3), II/24 Early Rhoxolani Sarmatian, II/45c Sicilian & Italian Slave Revolts/Spartacus, II/49 Marian Roman (2), II/56 Early Imperial Roman

Losses: I/43a Skythian, Kimmerian or Early Hu (4), I/47 Illyrian (5), I/48 Thracian, I/50 Lydian, I/51 Neo Assyrian Later Sargonid (2), I/52e Early Hoplite Greek/Athenian, I/52f Early Hoplite Greek/Athenian (4), I/52g Early Hoplite Greek/Asiatic, I/54 Early Macedonian, I/60 Early Achaemenid Persian, II/5a Later Hoplite Greek/Spartan (2), II/5b Later Hoplite Greek/Athens, II/5c Later Hoplite Greek/Theban, II/5d Later Hoplite Greek/Thessalian (2), II/5f Later Hoplite Greek/Phokian (2), II/7 Later Achaemenid Persian, II/11 Gallic (2), II/12 Alexandrian Macedonian (4), II/15 Alexandrian Imperial, II/17 Lysimachid (2), II/18a Macedonian Early Successors/Antipatros (2), II/19 Seleucid, II/33 Polybian Roman (2), II/35 Later Macedonian (2), II/49 Marian Roman, II/52 Dacian or Carpi, II/56 Early Imperial Roman (2)

I used to drop Ps out of my armies when choosing allied contingents but recently they have gone up in my estimations.😉