|
|
Post by paulhannah on Jun 1, 2017 20:43:00 GMT
Stumbled across this photo of Colin's III/52 Zanj Revolt army in another thread. An Arab army with artillery...that alone is somewhat unusual. It looks as if Colin's "recipe" for building this army used a mix of Essex 15mm Arab Conquest figures and Saracens from their Crusader range, right? Not sure, though, what he used for the Fast Hordes and the Psiloi. Any guesses or suggestions? The Khurasan Arabs look great and nicely straddle the right time-period, but, again, hard to see which of their would work for the Fast Hordes & Psiloi? (I, for one, try not mix manufactures as the differences in size and style bug me. I know this "ethnic purity" fetish of mine is a limiting factor.) |
|
|
|
Post by Tony Aguilar on Jun 1, 2017 21:49:51 GMT
This army would be a cool one to build as it would have great diversity in troops including East Africans and people from all over the Abbasid lands.
I don't mind mixing manufacturers as long as they are size compatible. If I were to build them I have lots of figures that would fit the bill from Minifigs, Essex and Old Glory.
|
|
|
|
Post by timurilank on Jun 1, 2017 23:04:25 GMT
Stumbled across this photo of Colin's III/52 Zanj Revolt army in another thread. An Arab army with artillery...that alone is somewhat unusual. It looks as if Colin's "recipe" for building this army used a mix of Essex 15mm Arab Conquest figures and Saracens from their Crusader range, right? Not sure, though, what he used for the Fast Hordes and the Psiloi. Any guesses or suggestions? The Khurasan Arabs look great and nicely straddle the right time-period, but, again, hard to see which of their would work for the Fast Hordes & Psiloi? (I, for one, try not mix manufactures as the differences in size and style bug me. I know this "ethnic purity" fetish of mine is a limiting factor.) Zanj Rebellion figures
I had planned the Zanj army but though better to add Umayyad, Abbasid and Dynastic Bedouin to the growing collection of Muslim armies. The Zanj rebellion troops were predominately black slaves later supported by defecting Black troops from the Abbasid army.
My first choice would be to fill the ranks with figures in loin cloth, short cropped hair and no beard. The Berber figure (OG Andalusian list) would work well for the javelin and blade types (reshape the upper javelin section for a sword).
Further, Nubian archers from the Biblical list would serve for bow and additional figures can come from the Colonial Sudanese (Ansar spearmen and swordsmen) figures and the Blue Moon Colonial Ansar charging cavalry; these mix height wise with Old Glory.
|
|
|
|
Post by edonaldson on Jun 2, 2017 15:23:09 GMT
I'm curious about opinions of what elements in the army would be the East African Slave Troops and which would be the Local Arabs from the Southern Iraqi Marshland mentioned in the 3.0 text? I' guessing that the General would be Arab given his name - Ali ibn Muhammad. Could the 4 x Sp be a mix of both Arab and Slaves? I'm also guessing that the 5Hd are likely Slaves as would be the 3Bd as that same element shows up listed as Zanj in the Abbasid list.
|
|
|
|
Post by timurilank on Jun 2, 2017 16:33:24 GMT
I'm curious about opinions of what elements in the army would be the East African Slave Troops and which would be the Local Arabs from the Southern Iraqi Marshland mentioned in the 3.0 text? I' guessing that the General would be Arab given his name - Ali ibn Muhammad. Could the 4 x Sp be a mix of both Arab and Slaves? I'm also guessing that the 5Hd are likely Slaves as would be the 3Bd as that same element shows up listed as Zanj in the Abbasid list. Eric, The 3Bd are labelled 'elite' swordsmen which may indicate the regular trained troops that deserted the Abbasid army. The 4Bd could be deserters stiffened with black slaves represented as a mix of uniformed types with half clothed figures. The tribal horse (LH) would most like be the local Bedouin.
The background of Ali ibn Muhammad can be read on page 453 of Ghada Hashem Talhami's paper 'The Zanj Rebellion'. www.artsrn.ualberta.ca/amcdouga/Hist446/readings/zanj_rebellion_reconsidered.pdf
|
|
|
|
Post by martin on Jun 2, 2017 19:09:31 GMT
Stumbled across this photo of Colin's III/52 Zanj Revolt army in another thread. An Arab army with artillery...that alone is somewhat unusual. It looks as if Colin's "recipe" for building this army used a mix of Essex 15mm Arab Conquest figures and Saracens from their Crusader range, right? Not sure, though, what he used for the Fast Hordes and the Psiloi. Colin's offline for a while, I think, or he'd be the best person to comment about the army in the photo. It was a prize he generously donated to the Alton Matched Pairs 2017 event (may have been won by Mark Skelton.....not sure). Yes, there are some Essex, but quite a few of the miniatures are from Donnington. I can spot a frw Museum Miniatures in there, too. Some of the Ps are 'stone throwing boys' etc, using camp-follower figures from Magister Militum and stone throwers from Two Dragons. The artillery piece was hand made by Colin using balsa or other woody stuff, and pivots just like the real thing :-). Colin likes to mix-and-match for armies like this, and his painting style drags all the different figure styles together in a very pleasing way - very 'gestalt'. M |
|
|
|
Post by edonaldson on Jun 2, 2017 20:03:00 GMT
I noticed that Legio Heroica makes a Zanj javelinman in their Crusader/Muslim range. They make many other Arab figures but I haven't looked deeply into what other figures might work for a Zanj army.
|
|
|
|
Post by edonaldson on Jun 2, 2017 20:09:06 GMT
I noticed that Legio Heroica makes a Zanj javelinman in their Crusader/Muslim range. They make many other Arab figures but I haven't looked deeply into what other figures might work for a Zanj army.
|
|
|
|
Post by paulhannah on Jun 2, 2017 20:46:06 GMT
Really helpful replies so far. The figure-mix that Robert suggests could create a visually stunning army, what with the differences in skin-tone and attire (or lack thereof) within the same elements!
Anybody have a copy of Slingshot 255 handy? (That's listed a reference in the commentary for this army.) If so, perhaps somebody here could paraphrase any insights it might offer for army-composition.
|
|
|
|
Post by timurilank on Jun 2, 2017 21:49:43 GMT
I noticed that Legio Heroica makes a Zanj javelinman in their Crusader/Muslim range. They make many other Arab figures but I haven't looked deeply into what other figures might work for a Zanj army. I use Legio Heroica exclusively for my Late Medieval and Franco-Dutch War 1670 armies. In general they are robust figures and I would hesitate to mix them with other manufacturers, unless they are 18mm like Museum Miniatures or Eureka.
However, if you intend to collect Abbasid and Zanj, Legio Heroica offer a good selection of figure types; Turkish Ghulams, Arab and Bedouin Cavalry, and Arab and Sudanese infantry.
|
|
|
|
Post by Spitzicles on Jun 3, 2017 0:23:22 GMT
Fellas,
I am building my Zanj Rebellion out of Irregular Miniatures (most of the Arabs and Zanj themselves), Old Glory (using Crusader period Arab peasants for the Hd), and Peter Pig (for the stone throwing Ps). I am also taking the approach recommended by timurilank:
"The 3Bd are labelled 'elite' swordsmen which may indicate the regular trained troops that deserted the Abbasid army.
The 4Bd could be deserters stiffened with black slaves represented as a mix of uniformed types with half clothed figures.
The tribal horse (LH) would most like be the local Bedouin."
That was pretty much what I was thinking, and allows me to use some leftover figures from Abbasid and Umayyad forces I have painted up.
And thanks for the link to a biography of their leader, I'll check that out shortly.
|
|
|
|
Post by timurilank on Jun 4, 2017 13:31:15 GMT
I was looking at the reworked Tang figures by Essex as a possible enemy for the Abbasid and found these four items of interest.
From the Crusade lists there are unarmoured Black archers, Black javelinmen with and without shields and Black slingers. These would certainly fit the bill for the 'fast' horde.
www.essexminiatures.co.uk/collections/crusades-middle-eastern-700-1400ad
|
|
|
|
Post by Haardrada on Jun 4, 2017 15:20:43 GMT
Would the Irregular miniatures 15mm AB Berber/Sudenese figures be suitable?
I've only ever seen the archers but the range has mixed spearmen and swordsman which may fit in?
|
|
|
|
Post by felixs on Jun 4, 2017 18:50:12 GMT
There seems to be little in terms of picture sources. The Zanj should be quite dark. "Zanj" is more or less a very unfriendly term for "Negroe", arguably close to "Nigger". Of course, slaves of a lighter complexion might also be included in that term, since it is of course much more a socially constructed term than an analytical one. But the Arabs felt (and some still do) that "Zanj" were very dark. Medieval Arabic manuscripts (sometimes?) depict them as pitch-black (This page makes me believe so: originalpeople.org/zanj-negro-rebellion/). Point is: They should be quite a bit darker than what you would paint Arabs. I think the main question with all slave revolts is that of how much access to equipment the rebel ex-slaves would have. Obviously, time is the biggest factor here and the Zanj (for lack of a better term) went as far as establishing their own kingdom, so I would expect them to be moderately well-equipped. Archers and others not expecting to see close combat might choose light equipment for better movement, but close-combat troops would probably have found weapons and armour in the usual Arab style. |
|
|
|
Post by Spitzicles on Jun 4, 2017 23:11:02 GMT
Would the Irregular miniatures 15mm AB Berber/Sudenese figures be suitable? Thats what I am using for the majority of the Zanj Blade, so those elements can be distinguished from the Abbasid Spear and Blade, which are composed of the Irregular Arab figures. |
|
