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Post by pawsbill on Jun 5, 2016 10:11:36 GMT
I'm bouncing around some ideas for a theme for the PAWS Autumn DBA on 17 September 2016. It has to be based within the Section 3 time period of the lists.
My first choice would have been something based around Early Tang China (possibly the Sui & Tang invasions of Korea) but I don't know if people want two Far Eastern themes in a row.
My other thought is for the rise of Islam, so basically the Arab Conquest list armies, their opponents and successors.
Any thoughts, preferences or other suggestions?
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Post by martin on Jun 5, 2016 18:22:05 GMT
Think we did a Tang China not so long back.....or am I more absent minded than absent??!!
Arab Conquest would make a change, and involves all sorts of enemies as the conquest rapidly spreads.
Martin
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Post by pawsbill on Jun 5, 2016 20:38:41 GMT
Looking at the previous Autumn themes archived on the PAWS website, we did Tang China in the 8th century in 2013 (so under V2.2). This would be 7th Century so the list of available armies would be noticeably different.
Re an Arab Conquest theme, last year's Autumn PAWS theme was Khazaria in the 7th Century, so that included some of the Arab Conquest list versions and a good proportion of the same armies as such a theme would include.
We could revisit the 2010 theme Al Andalus and the Magrib in the 10th Century (Armies & enemies of Islamic Spain and North-West Africa, 901-1000 AD) and see how different this is in V3.0. |
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Post by menacussecundus on Jun 6, 2016 14:20:02 GMT
I'm not sure whether or not I'll be able to attend, but, if I were able to come, a second Far Eastern theme wouldn't put me off and seems to offer a greater variety of different army types compared to the Arab conquest (but perhaps I just haven't looked closely enough). That said, there may be an apparent "killer army" which would mean a high proportion of civil wars (and a rush to try and paint 10 elements of 4Kn//Sp between now and mid-September).
Having already adjusted the army I used in 2010 to make it v3 compliant, I'd be more than happy to revisit that theme.
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Post by hodsopa on Jun 6, 2016 20:43:58 GMT
My vote would be for Arab conquest. I feel the last two themes were pretty focussed on heavy troops and it would be nice to get the mediums and lights out again. And I imagine there must be camels, too!
Paul
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Post by martin on Jun 7, 2016 13:38:29 GMT
Ah, a propensity for camels...........hmm.
Either works for me, Bill. As you say, previous Tang was 2.2 and different century, so different enough.
M
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Post by hodsopa on Jun 7, 2016 19:24:47 GMT
Re the camels, I'm not sure if it is the aroma, the humps, or the ability to sneak through sand dunes that draws me to them.
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Post by pawsbill on Jun 11, 2016 18:01:31 GMT
I have come up with 3 possible themes and lists as follows. Which do people prefer?
Option 1 (another Far-Eastern theme)
Two Empires, Three Kingdoms and Many Clans - Korea and her Neighbours in the 7th Century AD (601-700 AD)
II/61 d Pre-Dynastic Khitan or Hsi Army
II/75 Paekche Korean Army
II/76 Koguryo Korean Army
II/77 a&b Shilla Korean Army
III/6 a&b Emishi Army
III/7 a Kofun Japanese Army
III/7 b Ritsuryo or Early Heian Japanese Army
III/20 a&b Sui Chinese Army
III/20 c Early T’ang Chinese Army
Option 2 (similar to Autumn 2015 but centred further South, so only about half the armies are the same)
The Rise of Islam – The Expansion of the Arab Empire in the 7th Century AD (601 700 AD)
II/23 a Later Pre-Islamic Nomad Arab Army
II/23b Later Pre-Islamic City Arab Army
II/23 c Later Pre-Islamic Yemeni Army
II/55 b Blemmye or Nobades Army
II/57 Later Moorish Army
II/69 c Sassanid Persian Army
III/8 Central-Asian City States Army
III/12 Christian Nubian Army
III/16 Khazar Army
III/17 Maurikian Byzantine Army
III/25 a&b Arab Conquest Army
III/25c Khawarij Army
III/27 Rshtuni Armenian Army
III/29 Thematic Byzantine Army
III/31 Umayyad Arab Army
III/33 Early Muslim North African Army
Option 3 (same as Autumn 2010)
Al Andalus and the Magrib in the 10th Century - Armies & enemies of Islamic Spain and North-West Africa (901-1000 AD)
III/21 b Italian Lombard
III/29 Thematic Byzantine
III/33 Early Muslim North Africa & Sicily
III/34 b Andalusian
III/35 a&b Feudal Spanish
III/40 b Norse Viking
III/49 Tulunid or Iqshidid Egyptian
III/52 West Frankish (not Norman, so Ag:2 only)
III/53 East Frankish
III/66 Fatamid Egyptian
III/70 Tuareg
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Post by pawsbill on Jun 18, 2016 10:05:08 GMT
I’ve decided to go with Option 2 (The Rise of Islam) for the Autumn DBA. I had only included the 3rd option (Al-Andalus repeated) in case too many objected to the other two, but all 3 were popular. Option 1 (Korea) was my initial favourite & was quite popular but very few have suitable armies and the only manufacturer I know of who does half of the necessary figures has currently closed their website for a time. Option 2 actually has the largest selection of armies. Although several are similar, the others offer great variation. There are plenty of Knights and other mounted troops so games should go quickly. And not too many Elephants to worry about. All I have to do know is paint a Black tent. Bill I have come up with 3 possible themes and lists as follows. Which do people prefer?
Option 1 (another Far-Eastern theme)
Two Empires, Three Kingdoms and Many Clans - Korea and her Neighbours in the 7th Century AD (601-700 AD)
<snip>
Option 2 (similar to Autumn 2015 but centred further South, so only about half the armies are the same)
The Rise of Islam – The Expansion of the Arab Empire in the 7th Century AD (601 700 AD)
II/23 a Later Pre-Islamic Nomad Arab Army
II/23b Later Pre-Islamic City Arab Army
II/23 c Later Pre-Islamic Yemeni Army
II/55 b Blemmye or Nobades Army
II/57 Later Moorish Army
II/69 c Sassanid Persian Army
III/8 Central-Asian City States Army
III/12 Christian Nubian Army
III/16 Khazar Army
III/17 Maurikian Byzantine Army
III/25 a&b Arab Conquest Army
III/25c Khawarij Army
III/27 Rshtuni Armenian Army
III/29 Thematic Byzantine Army
III/31 Umayyad Arab Army
III/33 Early Muslim North African Army
Option 3 (same as Autumn 2010)
Al Andalus and the Magrib in the 10th Century - Armies & enemies of Islamic Spain and North-West Africa (901-1000 AD)
<snip>
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Post by martin on Sept 13, 2016 7:14:31 GMT
Looking forward to this, next Saturday's tournament. Colin, Richard, Mark and I have run most of the armies out in practice games, and they all have their merits and challenges, most scoring at least one win over the last few months....the sign of a well balanced and interesting theme.
I'm expecting to see at least one Sassanid take the field, and the African based armies are popular. My Early Byzantines may well morph, and see daylight for the afternoon, unless I swap to using Aislinn's LPIA nomads...them camels is funnn. Don't have enough 4Bd to field the early Conquest army, which is slow but relentless, from what we saw in practice. And who is going to be keen enough to take the lunatic Khawarij, with all those Kn and Wb??!!
Going to be a great afternoon, win or lose 😊.
Martin
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Post by hodsopa on Sept 15, 2016 21:23:43 GMT
I'll be there - unless my first grandson arrives first!
Paul H
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allnewstevie
Beneficiarii
My life has changed, why have I never used a dice tower before, despite having two?
Posts: 76 
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Post by allnewstevie on Sept 16, 2016 8:17:17 GMT
Ok, senior citizen alert----------forgotten what time we start - is is 1300??
Stevie
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Post by martin on Sept 16, 2016 8:29:27 GMT
Yes, as far as I know we get access to the room at 1 pm. Bill will no doubt confirm.
Martin
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Post by martin on Sept 17, 2016 20:58:33 GMT
Thanks to Bill and the PAWS crowd for a great afternoon. Five rounds, plus the final. Well worth it.
Will report a bit further later, but congrats to Martin Myers for snatching victory from the jaws of defeat in the final. Nail-biting stuff.
Pic album now on the Yahoo DBA Group.
Martin.
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Post by martin on Sept 18, 2016 22:52:11 GMT
Five games at the Autumn PAWS DBA event, where I used Maurikian Byzantines (III/17), the army being 50% cavalry, the balance being Skutatoi spearmen (25%), plus close formation bowmen (15%) and the remainder artillery/bolt shooters. All games were challenging, and went as follows:-
1) vs Peter Ellis and his Central Asian City States army. CACS has a useful mix of mounted- hard charging 'knights', faster cavalry and a few scouting light horse- plus an array of loose order archers, very capable in rough terrain. Maurice and friends invaded the steppes, and grabbed the gently rolling hilly side of the battlefield. Some casualties went down to CACS bowfire, but the Kavallarioi charged home, and scored a 5-2 win by running down bowmen, skirmishing foot and some 'knights'.
2) Again I invaded, this time vs John Saunders' Sassanians. Byzantine bowmen anchored my left flank, occupying a steep hill to keep Sassanid mounted at bay, and shot down three enemy light horse elements in short order. My artillery were less successful against John's elephant corps, but a little luck for the aggressive Kavallarioi saw another Sassanid cavalry element go down for a 4-2G win, Maurice and bodyguard having been toppled by the Asaravan cavalry opposite, in the moment of victory. So far so good, but my good luck may have died along with Maurice.....
3) Maurice's replacement now took it upon himself to attack the Christian Nubians, led by my regular sparring partner, the wily Colin O'Shea, in their home territory. The Nubians have a useful mix of light and heavy mounted, plus a core of assegai-type close foot (blades), supported by agile bowmen. An unguarded patch of sand dunes on my right flank proved my undoing, as Nubian skirmishers (Ps) raced into them on the first move of the game and then stifled manoeuvre of the Kavallarioi on that flank. Pinned by the threat of the skirmishers, the Byzantine cavalry were rapidly despatched by the aggressive Nubian general, with cavalry and light camel support. A stinging and comprehensive defeat, 0-4, ensued while the Byzantine foot stood idly by (lack of initiative PIPs).
4) For a low aggression army, my Maurikians were very much all fired up, as they AGAIN invaded, this time in a civil war clash with Paul Clair's identical Maurikians. My foot trudged forward, but the over-extended mounted on my right were rudely dealt with by enemy archers and cavalry in a series of shoot outs and melees, leaving me 1-5 down, another decisive defeat. Ooops.
5) For the last 'group stage' game, I encountered another Sassanian army, this time led by Lindon Paxton, who did the decent thing and invaded, breaking my run of games in enemy territory. Home terrain saw a coastline on my right (waterway) and a significant hamlet splitting the advancing Sassanids into two tranches. Enemy light horse, in deep formation, tried unsuccessfully to steamroller the Byzantine archers on my left, but repeatedly recoiled, while on the right a few enemy mounted and their elephant support failed to keep up due command range issues. Then the main Persian cavalry line charged home, the Sassanian cataphract general (4Kn) in their midst. A swirling melee ensued, with fortune favouring the Persians, leaving me 1-3 down, and on the verge of imminent disaster. However, the Sassanian leader had poor luck in the next clash, and was toppled from his horse, just as the Kavallarioi on the right flank recovered their composure to mob the end of the Persian line, scraping back a 3G-3 victory from what had seemed like an imminent trouncing. Close call........
A great afternoon of gaming, and a decent score of 3 wins out of 5, though some 'skin of the teeth' wins in there, of course.
Points I noted-
Both Sassanids declined to bring expendable levy foot to the field, opting instead for the 2 x LH choice. The Sassanids were my second choice to take, but with 'hordes'/ levy foot, and less horse archers.
My rate of invading of enemy territory belied my 'aggression 1' rating, with a disproportionate number of 'away games'.
Maurikians had few troops capable of dealing with poor terrain, apart from the slow moving close formation archers, as exposed by the Nubians taunting of my mounted from the dunes. Taking an optional skirmish foot/psiloi element might have been a good idea.
CACS are well balanced in v3, with the hard charging 'knight' elements adding some punch, one such army (Martin Myers') going on to win the tournament's final (vs Arnaud's Maurikians-with-Sassanid-ally combo).
Fun and (lotsa) games....what's not to like??!!
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