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Post by timurilank on Nov 29, 2016 9:56:30 GMT
I have read through Stratagems by Frontinus with an idea to include a number of these as options for our quick play campaigns. After the initial confrontation, subsequent battles would invariably be fought between uneven sides and availing the use of stratagem could bring a balance between armies.
Just as movement and supply, using a stratagem would cost points. They would be available for both sides, but due to their cost, these would not be used with any great frequency. At the moment, I have four stratagems in mind; ambush, flank march, rapid deployment and choosing a battlefield.
Number One. The stratagem ambush is taken from Book I, chapter 6 – On Laying and Meeting Ambushes While On The March.
Ambush This works similar to the “lurker” rule in HOTT (DBA Fantasy). Ambushers (1 - 3 elements) are not placed on-table during the deployment phase, but appear on a player’s turn in rough or bad going terrain as a tactical move.
This costs 2 Pips per element to appear anywhere in the terrain feature. Thereafter, the element remains on the table as part of the command from which they were detached from. Ambushers are “fast” troop types, such as Ps, 3Ax, 3Wb and 3Bd, but not 5Hd. Group move restrictions in non-good going terrain still apply.
Comments?
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Post by vodnik on Nov 30, 2016 8:53:37 GMT
...in DBMM stratagems are a common part of the rules, This can be as simple as scouting, guides or betrayal, or systematic like; changing deployment, flank atteck, exaggerating army size, false reinforcements, disguised troops, hidden obstacies, delaying battle, concealed command, unusual troops, feigned flight, ambush. But not all armies can use all stratagems...
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Post by timurilank on Nov 30, 2016 10:29:19 GMT
...in DBMM stratagems are a common part of the rules, This can be as simple as scouting, guides or betrayal, or systematic like; changing deployment, flank atteck, exaggerating army size, false reinforcements, disguised troops, hidden obstacies, delaying battle, concealed command, unusual troops, feigned flight, ambush. But not all armies can use all stratagems... These options, which I would like to add to the Quick Play Campaign, are not restricted to particular historical armies, but are available to both players. The cunning player that wishes to use them must be able to afford them and therein lies the difficulty.
During a campaign it is quite possible a commander lacks the good fortune to accumulate "points". And lacking sufficient points an army will not be adequately supplied or brought up to strength to continue fighting.
A player may find it prudent to hold off engaging the enemy to first build up a reserve of "points" before continuing a campaign.
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Post by timurilank on Dec 1, 2016 9:25:32 GMT
Number Two. In Frontinus, Book II, Chapter 1 – On Choosing The Time Of Battle, you can read examples of surprise maneuver catching the enemy off guard.
Rapid Deployment Defender sets terrain as per rule set, the player using this option moves the centre line 3BW closer to the enemy which simulates the swift approach of an army catching the opposition scrambling to leave camp and deploy for battle.
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Post by timurilank on Dec 3, 2016 8:05:45 GMT
Number Three. From Frontinus, Book II, Chapter 2 – On Choosing The Place For Battle. Choosing the battlefield Normally the defender selects and places terrain whereby the attacker may select a side for his deployment; however, this option allows the attacker to select which pieces are to be placed by the defender.
The compulsory features must remain, but the attacker may select the optional terrain features improving the conditions for battle.
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Post by Cromwell on Dec 3, 2016 8:19:15 GMT
I like the sound of these ideas. Be interesting to see how they work out in play.
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Post by timurilank on Dec 3, 2016 11:56:07 GMT
I like the sound of these ideas. Be interesting to see how they work out in play. The ambush option has be used during the Hispanic campaign presented here some time back.
Reading through Livy, the Romans fell victim to quite a number of ambuscades by the Lusitanian and Celtiberian armies. It was then I began then devising stratagems to be used as part of the campaign.
Using the option "choice of battlefield" simulates catching your opponent at an inopportune moment, for example, while on the march and at an ideal location. (Battle of Lake Trasimene)
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Post by timurilank on Dec 5, 2016 8:35:59 GMT
Number Four. From Frontinus, Book I , Chapter 6 – On Laying and Meeting Ambushes While On The March give an example of a Roman legion flanking an enemy line. Flank March One to three elements can execute a flank march and are held off table during deployment.
On the player's first turn they appear at any table edge, but not an opponent's deployment area, for the cost of one pip. A player may elect to delay their appearance, to do so costs one pip extra per turn delayed. Therefore, to appear on turn 2 costs 2 pips, turn 3, 3 pips, etc. Players should note, while the flank march remains off table, the required number of elements needed to defeat a command is reduced by one.
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Post by timurilank on Dec 5, 2016 8:50:53 GMT
Stratagems – some examples. This week I shall post a number of games using these stratagems. There are obvious advantages to using them, but planned stratagems can be thwarted by an equally cunning opponent.
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Post by sheffmark on Dec 5, 2016 12:35:29 GMT
Number Four. From Frontinus, Book I , Chapter 6 – On Laying and Meeting Ambushes While On The March give an example of a Roman legion flanking an enemy line. Flank March One to three elements can execute a flank march and are held off table during deployment.
On the player's first turn they appear at any table edge, but not an opponent's deployment area, for the cost of one pip. A player may elect to delay their appearance, to do so costs one pip extra per turn delayed. Therefore, to appear on turn 2 costs 2 pips, turn 3, 3 pips, etc. Players should note, while the flank march remains off table, the required number of elements needed to defeat a command is reduced by one.
This looks quite a powerful one to me. Particularly if you can choose the point they appear when you successfully dice for them! I think under the various DBM rules and even before,(6th edition etc) there was always an element of risk that the flank march would get lost/delayed and so wouldn't appear. I'd suggest adding 1 to the PIP scores you suggest so, for example if you wanted it to appear on turn 3, maybe just as the lines were to engage, you'd need to throw a 4 on PIP dice to get them on, or altenatively marking on a map the point at which they were going to appear?
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Post by sheffmark on Dec 5, 2016 12:41:34 GMT
I have read through Stratagems by Frontinus with an idea to include a number of these as options for our quick play campaigns. After the initial confrontation, subsequent battles would invariably be fought between uneven sides and availing the use of stratagem could bring a balance between armies.
Just as movement and supply, using a stratagem would cost points. They would be available for both sides, but due to their cost, these would not be used with any great frequency. At the moment, I have four stratagems in mind; ambush, flank march, rapid deployment and choosing a battlefield.
Number One. The stratagem ambush is taken from Book I, chapter 6 – On Laying and Meeting Ambushes While On The March.
Ambush This works similar to the “lurker” rule in HOTT (DBA Fantasy). Ambushers (1 - 3 elements) are not placed on-table during the deployment phase, but appear on a player’s turn in rough or bad going terrain as a tactical move.
This costs 2 Pips per element to appear anywhere in the terrain feature. Thereafter, the element remains on the table as part of the command from which they were detached from. Ambushers are “fast” troop types, such as Ps, 3Ax, 3Wb and 3Bd, but not 5Hd. Group move restrictions in non-good going terrain still apply.
Comments?
2 PIPs per element seems a bit expensive, i.e. to get three elements on you'd need to throw a 6? Maybe 2 PIPs per group? Also the HOTT rule says they have to be placed when an enemy element enters bad going and they have to be placed in contact with the enemy. Would you have something like that? Otherwise you could have enemy troops marching through a piece of scrub, only to find elements 'pop up' behind them once they'd been through?
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Post by timurilank on Dec 5, 2016 13:09:38 GMT
Number Four. From Frontinus, Book I , Chapter 6 – On Laying and Meeting Ambushes While On The March give an example of a Roman legion flanking an enemy line. Flank March One to three elements can execute a flank march and are held off table during deployment.
On the player's first turn they appear at any table edge, but not an opponent's deployment area, for the cost of one pip. A player may elect to delay their appearance, to do so costs one pip extra per turn delayed. Therefore, to appear on turn 2 costs 2 pips, turn 3, 3 pips, etc. Players should note, while the flank march remains off table, the required number of elements needed to defeat a command is reduced by one.
This looks quite a powerful one to me. Particularly if you can choose the point they appear when you successfully dice for them! I think under the various DBM rules and even before,(6th edition etc) there was always an element of risk that the flank march would get lost/delayed and so wouldn't appear. I'd suggest adding 1 to the PIP scores you suggest so, for example if you wanted it to appear on turn 3, maybe just as the lines were to engage, you'd need to throw a 4 on PIP dice to get them on, or altenatively marking on a map the point at which they were going to appear?
This may seem so at first glance but there are a number of factors at play. Used in the context of the campaign most players would readily expend their points to reconstitute and supply their armies to move on to the next engagement. With an average amount of luck, players will occasionally need to forego a month of activity simply to re-build their reserve of points. The player implementing the flank march may find his army hotly engaged by turn two that needed pips will be required elsewhere to maintain a cohesive fight. I will certainly look at increasing the pip score required to bring a flank march on the table and it goes without saying the location should be marked down ahead of time. I will add that to the text.
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Post by sheffmark on Dec 5, 2016 13:15:32 GMT
This looks quite a powerful one to me. Particularly if you can choose the point they appear when you successfully dice for them! I think under the various DBM rules and even before,(6th edition etc) there was always an element of risk that the flank march would get lost/delayed and so wouldn't appear. I'd suggest adding 1 to the PIP scores you suggest so, for example if you wanted it to appear on turn 3, maybe just as the lines were to engage, you'd need to throw a 4 on PIP dice to get them on, or altenatively marking on a map the point at which they were going to appear?
This may seem so at first glance but there are a number of factors at play. Used in the context of the campaign most players would readily expend their points to reconstitute and supply their armies to move on to the next engagement. With an average amount of luck, players will occasionally need to forego a month of activity simply to re-build their reserve of points. The player implementing the flank march may find his army hotly engaged by turn two that needed pips will be required elsewhere to maintain a cohesive fight. I will certainly look at increasing the pip score required to bring a flank march on the table and it goes without saying the location should be marked down ahead of time. I will add that to the text.
Must admit I like the idea of the Stratagems. It would be great to see some battle reports of them in operation, if you get the time. Cheers Mark
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Post by timurilank on Dec 5, 2016 13:27:21 GMT
I have read through Stratagems by Frontinus with an idea to include a number of these as options for our quick play campaigns. After the initial confrontation, subsequent battles would invariably be fought between uneven sides and availing the use of stratagem could bring a balance between armies.
Just as movement and supply, using a stratagem would cost points. They would be available for both sides, but due to their cost, these would not be used with any great frequency. At the moment, I have four stratagems in mind; ambush, flank march, rapid deployment and choosing a battlefield.
Number One. The stratagem ambush is taken from Book I, chapter 6 – On Laying and Meeting Ambushes While On The March.
Ambush This works similar to the “lurker” rule in HOTT (DBA Fantasy). Ambushers (1 - 3 elements) are not placed on-table during the deployment phase, but appear on a player’s turn in rough or bad going terrain as a tactical move.
This costs 2 Pips per element to appear anywhere in the terrain feature. Thereafter, the element remains on the table as part of the command from which they were detached from. Ambushers are “fast” troop types, such as Ps, 3Ax, 3Wb and 3Bd, but not 5Hd. Group move restrictions in non-good going terrain still apply.
Comments?
2 PIPs per element seems a bit expensive, i.e. to get three elements on you'd need to throw a 6? Maybe 2 PIPs per group? Also the HOTT rule says they have to be placed when an enemy element enters bad going and they have to be placed in contact with the enemy. Would you have something like that? Otherwise you could have enemy troops marching through a piece of scrub, only to find elements 'pop up' behind them once they'd been through?
The number of elements held in ambush can vary between one and three, plus there is no requirement to bring them on all at once. The two points cover the cost to make a tactical move and being beyond command distance. The condition to move into action is in theory pre-set; seeing an exposed flank or rear, enemy general in charge reach, etc.
However, point taken about enemy springing up in areas that have been "swept" by marching troops. I will make some changes to the text after our series of tests.
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