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Post by gaelyann on Nov 16, 2016 8:35:19 GMT
I want to play the Emperor Ch'in army (the terracotta army), but I wonder about the dates of the II/4 army sub-lists :
- The II/4a Ch'in chinese army ends in 221BC, while in the text it says the army list includes the ch'in empire from 220BC until its collapse in 207BC. So is the army II/4a sublist end date wrong, or is this period covered by another sublist of this army (may be the II/4e Other chinese armies that ends in 202BC) ? In other words, if I want to play the Ch'in empire army between 220BC (end of the conquest of the warrong states) and 207BC, what army list must I take ?
- another point that bothers me, the II/4c Chao chinese sublist ends in 202BC, while this kingdom is supposed to have been conquered by 221BC (date of complete "reunification" of the warring states by the ch'in), is the date wrong ? May be the end dates of the II/4a and II/4c have been swapped ?
may be the army lists of other games (DBM(M), AdG) would help clarify these points ?
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Post by lkmjbc on Nov 16, 2016 22:06:36 GMT
Can anybody answer this? Chinese armies aren't my area...
I would imagine some end dates are incorrect here.
Joe Collins
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Post by Dangun on Nov 18, 2016 9:49:14 GMT
I can answer this.
But I am in China at the moment and don't have my books or 3.0 rules.
I'll have a look over the weekend.
PS: I'm going to guess that the sources don't really support such fine demarkations in army constituents.
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Post by Dangun on Nov 19, 2016 16:29:18 GMT
207BC was the date of the Qin emperor's last major battle (Julu) and his surrender.
But he and his capital survived until 206BC.
202 BC isn't really useful - as I think it can only refer to when the Han defeated the Chu (Gaixia) to determine that the next dynasty would be Han.
So the date in the book must just be wrong... and interestingly, its just a copy of the same error in the 2.2 lists.
Not really sure where the start date comes from either, since the Qin state (within Zhou) had been around since the 9th/8th C. BC.
I'm not sure, who the Chao are in the list? The date makes it look like the Chu, the name makes them look like the Zhou, but then why 202?
The name schema in the "Oriental" (**shudder with revulsion**) lists are pretty bad.
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Post by gaelyann on Nov 20, 2016 14:19:35 GMT
207BC was the date of the Qin emperor's last major battle (Julu) and his surrender. But he and his capital survived until 206BC. 202 BC isn't really useful - as I think it can only refer to when the Han defeated the Chu (Gaixia) to determine that the next dynasty would be Han. So the date in the book must just be wrong... and interestingly, its just a copy of the same error in the 2.2 lists. Not really sure where the start date comes from either, since the Qin state (within Zhou) had been around since the 9th/8th C. BC. I'm not sure, who the Chao are in the list? The date makes it look like the Chu, the name makes them look like the Zhou, but then why 202? The name schema in the "Oriental" (**shudder with revulsion**) lists are pretty bad. Thanks a lot, so I'll just play the II/4a Ch'in chinese army list and consider it goes through 202 BC... |
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Post by Haardrada on Nov 20, 2016 22:35:33 GMT
I want to play the Emperor Ch'in army (the terracotta army), but I wonder about the dates of the II/4 army sub-lists : - The II/4a Ch'in chinese army ends in 221BC, while in the text it says the army list includes the ch'in empire from 220BC until its collapse in 207BC. So is the army II/4a sublist end date wrong, or is this period covered by another sublist of this army (may be the II/4e Other chinese armies that ends in 202BC) ? In other words, if I want to play the Ch'in empire army between 220BC (end of the conquest of the warrong states) and 207BC, what army list must I take ? - another point that bothers me, the II/4c Chao chinese sublist ends in 202BC, while this kingdom is supposed to have been conquered by 221BC (date of complete "reunification" of the warring states by the ch'in), is the date wrong ? May be the end dates of the II/4a and II/4c have been swapped ? may be the army lists of other games (DBM(M), AdG) would help clarify these points ? The Ch'in army from 221BC could be represented by list II/4e as the Ch'in armies were still expanding their territories and made the grave error of spreading their garrisons too thinly that by 209BC they were being defeated in detail by uprisings so may not have been as efficient as earlier armies. |
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Post by korean on Nov 24, 2016 10:03:41 GMT
Can anybody answer this? Chinese armies aren't my area... I would imagine some end dates are incorrect here. Joe Collins orignally, My country was in chinese cultural area. so I know many chinese histories. but I don`t know consturtion of chinese army at warring states. long time ago, chinese elite(royal historian) don`t be interesting at contruction of army and situations of battle except arts of war. they so simply register battles and armies that,at present, many far esatern historian is difficult to find correct informations and report of chinese armies. |
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