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Post by pteros on Mar 25, 2024 1:37:17 GMT
A double-barreled question.
I’ve seen some discussion as to whether the larger or smaller board size is better. A lot of people have very strong opinions, which I can gather boil down to the smaller size working better for foot armies and the larger size favoring weaker unit types like LH and Bows.
So, at the risk of opening a can of worms, which is better for the game? Which are the rules (especially terrain) balanced best for?
Secondly, and perhaps this belongs in the House Rules section, would a 24x36 (for 15mm) board be a reasonable compromise? Movement to contact would be the same as the smaller scale, but there would be more options to maneuver your LH around the flanks and such.
(As far as terrain goes, you’d have 15% less board area than the bigger board but 43% more than the smaller board.)
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Post by jim1973 on Mar 25, 2024 2:19:50 GMT
It's an interesting discussion. I actually like larger boards for heavy infantry armies. The smallest board only allows 7 elements side by side in the central deployment zone. I like between 8-10 in order to deploy heavy infantry armies without unusual L ot T shapes.
Cheers
Jim
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Post by pteros on Mar 25, 2024 4:10:57 GMT
It's an interesting discussion. I actually like larger boards for heavy infantry armies. The smallest board only allows 7 elements side by side in the central deployment zone. I like between 8-10 in order to deploy heavy infantry armies without unusual L ot T shapes. Cheers Jim Deployment is an immediate issue I notice when I play on both sizes. With the smaller size, you don’t really have many options for how to deploy. A possible complication of the 24x36 board is that it might give the defender an advantage by allowing him to set up to the right or left where terrain blocks the invader immediately across, but I suppose there’s no rule saying the invader has to put his forces immediately across from the defender.
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Post by jim1973 on Mar 25, 2024 6:21:55 GMT
The 24x36 may also encourage oblique deployments to wedge the opponent into an effectively smaller battlefield due to the edges. Anecdotally, I see many people line up as far forward as possible. Sometimes, some depth helps you straighten out your line.
Cheers
Jim
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Post by martin on Mar 25, 2024 8:46:36 GMT
So, at the risk of opening a can of worms, which is better for the game? Which are the rules (especially terrain) balanced best for? Secondly, and perhaps this belongs in the House Rules section, would a 24x36 (for 15mm) board be a reasonable compromise? Movement to contact would be the same as the smaller scale, but there would be more options to maneuver your LH around the flanks and such. (As far as terrain goes, you’d have 15% less board area than the bigger board but 43% more than the smaller board.) When we tried a bigger board, it didn’t seem to make too much difference to the ability of the light horse army to gain an advantage. With a 24x36” board the main disadvantage is that there are now effectively only two directions of play (unlike a roadless square board). This might play into the hands of the terrain-placing player.
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Post by claudermilk on Mar 25, 2024 15:14:03 GMT
Interested to follow this. I'm still a newbie and have only played on the "standard" 24x24, though I do have a 30x30 board made as an option. I am also seeing that Triumph uses a 24x36, so that would be a dual-use board for those with both sets of rules (I'm curious about those).
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Post by Brian Ború on Mar 25, 2024 15:51:48 GMT
The 'Ulmer Strategen' always use the bigger Board option for their tournaments, and they are always fun to play. One special issue with theses boards is: players normally use their standard terrain pieces which fit better on a smaller board, so the chances are relatively high that you have to fight on vast and empty plains of billiard table terrain. But I think the bigger the landscape and the bigger your terrain pieces the more tactical possibilities you'll get out of it, only if you try and use it in your favour... ...and on the other hand: I found that quite a lot of generals tend to neglect the advantages and disadvantages of the terrain. Sometimes the time and order distances slow them down remarkably. My funniest victories happened when I fought their weaker wing while their stronger wing staggered through some marsh or wood or remained in shelter behind some river or hill... So, think of Napoleon: "Never interrupt the enemy when he's about to make some blunder." And, like him, use your terrain in your favour.
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Post by skb777 on Mar 25, 2024 22:10:10 GMT
The 'Ulmer Strategen' always use the bigger Board option for their tournaments, and they are always fun to play. One special issue with theses boards is: players normally use their standard terrain pieces which fit better on a smaller board, so the chances are relatively high that you have to fight on vast and empty plains of billiard table terrain. But I think the bigger the landscape and the bigger your terrain pieces the more tactical possibilities you'll get out of it, only if you try and use it in your favour... ...and on the other hand: I found that quite a lot of generals tend to neglect the advantages and disadvantages of the terrain. Sometimes the time and order distances slow them down remarkably. My funniest victories happened when I fought their weaker wing while their stronger wing staggered through some marsh or wood or remained in shelter behind some river or hill... So, think of Napoleon: "Never interrupt the enemy when he's about to make some blunder." And, like him, use your terrain in your favour. "Well that's another fine mess you got me into" Oliver Hardy
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Post by pteros on Mar 27, 2024 12:32:54 GMT
Dimensionality of the board wasn’t something I’d thought of as a problem. Can’t the defender already choose the axis of the board by placing their army? I think requiring both camps to be in the middle third of the board would do a lot to prevent deployment shenanigans. I’m not a very experienced DBA player and most of my games have been friendly, not competitive, so I’m sure the tournament masters here know better.
I was hoping someone would have input on which board size the terrain rules fits better, Brian Ború makes the point that 20 BW boards seem quite open. I personally have terrain pieces on the bigger end of things and think they work better on a 15 BW board.
The specific reason I’m asking is that I was thinking of making tiles with terrain on them and building the game board that way, whether by the defender choosing or a more random system. It’s just much easier to work with 12” tiles than 8” ones, so I was thinking about how to make that work.
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Post by martin on Mar 27, 2024 15:06:51 GMT
Dimensionality of the board wasn’t something I’d thought of as a problem. Can’t the defender already choose the axis of the board by placing their army? Not as such. In ‘standard’ DBA: The defender places terrain, and then the invader decides which of the four sides is to be his baseline…the defender is opposite. (If there’s a road or a waterway there are variations/complications).
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Post by Brian Ború on Mar 27, 2024 22:28:43 GMT
... The specific reason I’m asking is that I was thinking of making tiles with terrain on them and building the game board that way, whether by the defender choosing or a more random system. It’s just much easier to work with 12” tiles than 8” ones, so I was thinking about how to make that work. Sounds nice. Will surely provide beautiful terrain and is a kind of 'back to the roots'. As far as I remember the first ruleset of DBA (before its name) used ready built landscapes...
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Post by pteros on Mar 28, 2024 13:37:22 GMT
Dimensionality of the board wasn’t something I’d thought of as a problem. Can’t the defender already choose the axis of the board by placing their army? Not as such. In ‘standard’ DBA: The defender places terrain, and then the invader decides which of the four sides is to be his baseline…the defender is opposite. (If there’s a road or a waterway there are variations/complications). I suppose the counter-argument here is that some invaders (those with lots of Ax and Ps) will appreciate the extra space and opportunity to seize terrain with their faster units. I had figured that roads and rivers wouldn’t be part of the tiles, so perhaps allowing the invader to place a road could help?
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Mr.E
Beneficiarii
New comer to DBA
Posts: 80
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Post by Mr.E on Apr 3, 2024 23:21:07 GMT
I do have the 3 terrain mate that I made, 60x60cm (metric...oh yes) 90x90cm and the hybrid one 60x90cm which is your 24x36', as we extensively played I think the last one give more challenge and opportunity 4 side of the board can be chosen more terrain can be placed better for flanking and add variety it is like given you the opportunity to be in deep but narrow battle field like in Agincourt, or widht extended aisle friendly terrain.
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Post by pteros on Apr 7, 2024 20:33:07 GMT
I do have the 3 terrain mate that I made, 60x60cm (metric...oh yes) 90x90cm and the hybrid one 60x90cm which is your 24x36', as we extensively played I think the last one give more challenge and opportunity 4 side of the board can be chosen more terrain can be placed better for flanking and add variety it is like given you the opportunity to be in deep but narrow battle field like in Agincourt, or widht extended aisle friendly terrain. Thanks! I’ll try a few 24x36 games and see how they work out.
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Post by pteros on Apr 17, 2024 1:35:34 GMT
I’ve just had the thought that if allowing the attacker to pick board size is a good idea (https://fanaticus.boards.net/thread/1431/defender-attacker-24-board-sizes), that’s an argument in favor of an asymmetrical board, since the attacker gets to choose whether he wants a narrow or wide board.
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