battles of the 5th & 6th century on the European continent

vodnik
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battles of the 5th & 6th century on the European continent Oct 9, 2016 9:52:14 GMT

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Post by vodnik on Oct 9, 2016 9:52:14 GMT

...to use for common 12 element battles or dig battles with several commands, although the army lists are from DBA2.2 you can use the list names for all versions...

402 Verona; western Romans under Stilicho defeat Visigoths under Alarich
2/78a LIR - 2/65b Visigohic
406 Crossing of the Rhine; Fiesulae near Florence; Stilicho defeat Goths under Radagaisus
2/82a Franks - 2/82b Alemanni, 2/66 Vandal, 2/78 Alan; 2/78a LIR - 2/67a Early Osrogothic
435 Worms; western Romans & Hunns under Aetius defeat Burgundians
2/83a Patrician Roman, 2/80a Hunic - 2/70 Burgundi
436 Narbonne; western Romans under Aëtius deteat Visigoths under Theodorich I.
2/83a Patrician Roman - 2/83 Later Visigothic
451 Catalaunian plains; western Romans under Aëtius deteat Huns; Lacitania; Alans in Iberia are conquered by Visigoths
2/83a Roman; 2/83 Visigothic; 2/58 Alan - 2/80a Hunic; 2/67a Osrogothic; 2/72d Franks
452 Hunic invasion in Italy
2/80a Hunic - 2/83a Patrician Roman
454 Nadao; Gepids & other Germanic tribes defeat Huns
2/71 Gepds - 2/80d Hunic
455 Vandals sack Rome
2/84 Vandal - 2/83a Patrician Roman
469 Bolia Pannonia; Ostrogoths defeat a coalition of Germanic tribes
2/67a Osrogothic - 2/71 Gepds - 2/67b Heruls; 2/72 Suevi; 2/58 Sarmatian
486 Soissons; Franks under Clovis I defeat western Rome under Siagrius
3/5 Frankish - 2/83a Patrician Roman
493 Ravena; Ostrogoths under Theoderic defeat western Rome unter Odoacer
3/3 Ostrogothic - 2/83a Patrician Roman
496 Zülpich; Franks defeat Alemanni
3/5 Frankish - 2/72b Alemanni
507 Vouillé; Franks under Clovic defeat Visigoths under Alaric II
3/5 Frankish - 2/82 Visigothic
524 Vézeronce; Burgundi defeat Franks
2/70 Burgundi - 3/5 Frankish
531 Unstrut; Franks & Old Saxon defeat Thuringian
3/5 Frankish; 2/73 Old Saxon - 2/73 Thuringian
532 Autun; Franks defeat Burgundi
3/5 Frankish - 2/70 Burgundi
549 Pannonia; War between Gepids & Lombard
2/71 Gepid - 3/2 Lombard
552 Tagilae; eastern Rome defeat Ostrogoths -- Pannonia; Lombard defeat Gepids
3/4a Early Byzantine - 3/3 Ostrogoths -- 3/2 Lombard - 2/71 Gepid
554 Capus; eastern Rome defeats Franks & Alemanni
3/4a Early Byzantine - 3/5 Trankish; 2/72b Alemanni
567 Pannonia; Lombard & Avars defeat Gepids
3/2 Lombard; 3/13 Avar - 2/71 Gepid

Last Edit: Nov 2, 2016 14:45:10 GMT by vodnik

DBA2.2, ADG & Triumph gamer in Switzerland

timurilank Emperor Posts: 3,643	battles of the 5th & 6th century on the European continent Oct 9, 2016 10:39:02 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by timurilank on Oct 9, 2016 10:39:02 GMT This is very useful - thanks.
	“It’s a good day for the crows”.

sonic Centurion Posts: 254	battles of the 5th & 6th century on the European continent Oct 11, 2016 6:46:37 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by sonic on Oct 11, 2016 6:46:37 GMT You've missed out: 406 Battle of the Rhine. Vandals and Alans narrowly defeat Franks.

vodnik Tribune Posts: 920	battles of the 5th & 6th century on the European continent Oct 11, 2016 11:47:11 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by vodnik on Oct 11, 2016 11:47:11 GMT Sonic@: narrowly defeat meens that the Vandals and Alans lost the battle. But i did not forget that date; see 406 crossing of the Rhine...
	DBA2.2, ADG & Triumph gamer in Switzerland

sonic
Centurion

Posts: 254

battles of the 5th & 6th century on the European continent Oct 11, 2016 14:26:53 GMT

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Post by sonic on Oct 11, 2016 14:26:53 GMT

Actually, the Vandals were on the verge of losing when the Alans arrived and turned the tables. What I was pointing out is that you could ally the 2/66 Vandal and 2/78 Alan armies against the 2/72 Franks.

paulhannah
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Posts: 785

battles of the 5th & 6th century on the European continent Oct 11, 2016 18:28:36 GMT

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Post by paulhannah on Oct 11, 2016 18:28:36 GMT

Okay, "Vodnik", that's a nice list. Now, how about researching and creating a 12-element scenario or two from among those you listed? --Complete with terrain details, hard-coded starting positions, and special rules, of course! (Grins.)

vodnik
Tribune

Posts: 920

battles of the 5th & 6th century on the European continent Oct 12, 2016 10:49:37 GMT

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Post by vodnik on Oct 12, 2016 10:49:37 GMT

sonic @:you are right with the Franrs but i would prefer the 2/78a LIR list as the Franks were foederati anly...

paulhanah@: i would prefer the common terrain rules as most battles of that period are not exactly locatet...

DBA2.2, ADG & Triumph gamer in Switzerland

sonic
Centurion

Posts: 254

battles of the 5th & 6th century on the European continent Oct 12, 2016 11:30:37 GMT

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Post by sonic on Oct 12, 2016 11:30:37 GMT

Oct 12, 2016 10:49:37 GMT vodnik said:

sonic @:you are right with the Franks but i would prefer the 2/78a LIR list as the Franks were foederati anly...

paulhanah@: i would prefer the common terrain rules as most battles of that period are not exactly located ...

I agree that the Franks were allied as foederati, but there is no mention of any Roman forces in the battle so I think it was simply the Franks against the Vandals/Alans.

I also agree with the comments on terrain. It is very unusual for any details concerning topography to be included in the sources, so either using the terrain rules or agreeing terrain with an opponent is the way to go.

txwargamer Munifex Posts: 38	battles of the 5th & 6th century on the European continent Oct 13, 2016 3:21:49 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by txwargamer on Oct 13, 2016 3:21:49 GMT Very well done! Thanks for the effort.
	Later John lzbravo.blogspot.com/

vodnik
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Posts: 920

battles of the 5th & 6th century on the European continent Oct 13, 2016 14:43:06 GMT

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Post by vodnik on Oct 13, 2016 14:43:06 GMT

sonic@: do you know a location of that battle between Francs & Vandals? The Vandal king Godigisel was killed and the intervention of Alans did deside that battle. In that time Stilicho did move the empires border from Trier to Arles...

...there were even more tribes in 406 crossing the Rhine; Burgundi, Quadi, several Sarmate clans Crossing of the Rhine ...

DBA2.2, ADG & Triumph gamer in Switzerland

sonic
Centurion

Posts: 254

battles of the 5th & 6th century on the European continent Oct 13, 2016 16:51:33 GMT

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Post by sonic on Oct 13, 2016 16:51:33 GMT

Oct 13, 2016 14:43:06 GMT vodnik said:

sonic@: do you know a location of that battle between Francs & Vandals? The Vandal king Godigisel was killed and the intervention of Alans did deside that battle. In that time Stilicho did move the empires border from Trier to Arles...

...there were even more tribes in 406 crossing the Rhine; Burgundi, Quadi, several Sarmate clans Crossing of the Rhine ...

Sadly, the location of the battle is unknown. It may have been to the north of Mainz, as it is possible that after their near-defeat the Vandals retreated south before crossing the Rhine.

As to the tribes crossing the Rhine, the others may have had contingents involved, or it may just have been Jerome showing how clever he was.

timurilank
Emperor

Posts: 3,643

battles of the 5th & 6th century on the European continent Oct 22, 2016 17:22:49 GMT

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Post by timurilank on Oct 22, 2016 17:22:49 GMT

Oct 12, 2016 11:30:37 GMT sonic said:

Oct 12, 2016 10:49:37 GMT vodnik said:

sonic @:you are right with the Franks but i would prefer the 2/78a LIR list as the Franks were foederati anly...

paulhanah@: i would prefer the common terrain rules as most battles of that period are not exactly located ...

I agree that the Franks were allied as foederati, but there is no mention of any Roman forces in the battle so I think it was simply the Franks against the Vandals/Alans.

I also agree with the comments on terrain. It is very unusual for any details concerning topography to be included in the sources, so either using the terrain rules or agreeing terrain with an opponent is the way to go.

I am considering this as my next project to follow the Severan Dynasty.

The subject is quite vast so focus will be on the events unfolding in the Western Empire.

I am thinking the period between Theodosius and the final emperor of Rome should generate enough battles, campaigns and political intrigue.

This will also call for a revision of the campaign rule set to include the migrations.

“It’s a good day for the crows”.

sonic
Centurion

Posts: 254

battles of the 5th & 6th century on the European continent Oct 22, 2016 19:44:06 GMT

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Post by sonic on Oct 22, 2016 19:44:06 GMT

Oct 22, 2016 17:22:49 GMT timurilank said:

I am considering this as my next project to follow the Severan Dynasty.

The subject is quite vast so focus will be on the events unfolding in the Western Empire.

I am thinking the period between Theodosius and the final emperor of Rome should generate enough battles, campaigns and political intrigue.

This will also call for a revision of the campaign rule set to include the migrations.

It's a fascinating period! (But then I would say that, as I'm slightly biased!

)

Huns, Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Franks, Burgundians, Vandals, Sueves, Alans, West Rome, Roman civil wars, and that's just the 'big' players. Plus you could add East Rome, Sasanid Persia .... The list goes on.

The only difficulty would be controlling it all.

Good luck if you decide to go with it!

bob
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Posts: 789

battles of the 5th & 6th century on the European continent Oct 22, 2016 20:31:49 GMT

Quote

Post by bob on Oct 22, 2016 20:31:49 GMT

Oct 11, 2016 18:28:36 GMT paulhannah said:

Okay, "Vodnik", that's a nice list. Now, how about researching and creating a 12-element scenario or two from among those you listed? --Complete with terrain details, hard-coded starting positions, and special rules, of course! (Grins.)

Mega DITTO to Paul on this. Vodnik, do 10 of them and Joe will put it in a book for you

Generalize so can be used for the older version or DBA 3

timurilank
Emperor

Posts: 3,643

battles of the 5th & 6th century on the European continent Oct 22, 2016 20:56:38 GMT

Quote

Post by timurilank on Oct 22, 2016 20:56:38 GMT

Sonic,
Because the subject is quite broad I shall focus to one region and look at the various levels other than those of military.

Two points which come to mind, the civil and church administration (Diocese) served keep the “empire” operating when the central government ceased functioning due to civil strife so these will need to be introduced in some way when revising the campaign rules for this period.

I have tomorrow a 2 ½ hour train journey to Belgium so Bury and Wolfram (History of the Goths) will keep me company.

“It’s a good day for the crows”.

battles of the 5th & 6th century on the European continent

Post by vodnik on Oct 9, 2016 9:52:14 GMT

Post by timurilank on Oct 9, 2016 10:39:02 GMT

Post by sonic on Oct 11, 2016 6:46:37 GMT

Post by vodnik on Oct 11, 2016 11:47:11 GMT

Post by sonic on Oct 11, 2016 14:26:53 GMT

Post by paulhannah on Oct 11, 2016 18:28:36 GMT

Post by vodnik on Oct 12, 2016 10:49:37 GMT

Post by sonic on Oct 12, 2016 11:30:37 GMT

Post by txwargamer on Oct 13, 2016 3:21:49 GMT

Post by vodnik on Oct 13, 2016 14:43:06 GMT

Post by sonic on Oct 13, 2016 16:51:33 GMT

Post by timurilank on Oct 22, 2016 17:22:49 GMT

Post by sonic on Oct 22, 2016 19:44:06 GMT

Post by bob on Oct 22, 2016 20:31:49 GMT

Post by timurilank on Oct 22, 2016 20:56:38 GMT