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Post by louien on Feb 10, 2023 21:27:37 GMT
Hello All, a fun little what if.  You are a Viking warlord. You and your merry band has taken its normal summer holiday to jolly old England. It appears the local lord has prepared better this time, not happy with the prior year festivities. You face the following tactical situation. The Anglo Saxons are the defender. They have an excellent defensive position on a hill and anchored on each flank with woods. The Vikings have the option of bringing a 3Wb, 4Bw, or Ps as their last unit. What do you think would be best. .png) The challenge is ---> What would you do to break that position? You can assume redeployment as the attacker. My ideas. It seems like suicide to crash directly into the shieldwall. That would be 6 to 5 against the Vikings. The spears would not even pursue. I am thinking of taking 3 units of blades and try to work one of the flanks. Take a column and start them marching into one of the woods to peel back a flank. The reduced Viking shield wall would then pin the spear line giving them the choice of attacking a weaken Viking line but coming off the hill. What are your thoughts? Thanks |
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Post by Brian Ború on Feb 10, 2023 23:32:13 GMT
Add the warband to your flanking movement. Wb has a quick kill possibility against Bd. Maybe you could use them to threaten the Bd on the left flank of the Anglo-Saxons, or the Ps on their right, then their rear and their camp. So you could try to lure them into good going. On a bigger scale you can combine such a movement as a part of King Frederick II. "schiefe Schlachtordnung" (oblique order), like this against their left: Bd Sp Sp Sp Bd Wb Bd Bd Bd Bd Bd or this:
Sp Sp Sp Bd
Wb Bd Bd Bd
Bd |
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Post by jim1973 on Feb 11, 2023 0:52:45 GMT
At 1000AD your blades are 4Bd rather than the earlier raiders (3Bd). If the Anglo Saxons want to nail themselves to the hill you can march your line to the bottom and use TZ to pin them in place. If you line up opposite the junction of the spears you can pin 10 elements with only 9 of yours. That leaves 3 elements to destroy the Ps and threaten the camp. I would take a Blade and a Warband against the Ps and another blade through the opposite wood. Which way will the Anglo-Saxon general go?
Cheers
Jim
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Post by Baldie on Feb 11, 2023 9:38:11 GMT
Get back in your ship sail down the coast and massacre some of their undefended villages, ask how much they think their remaining villages are worth.
Take the protection money promising never to attack again, sail home and hand the ships over to your cousins telling them which villages still seem worth a punt.
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Post by Haardrada on Feb 11, 2023 9:48:04 GMT
At 1000AD your blades are 4Bd rather than the earlier raiders (3Bd). If the Anglo Saxons want to nail themselves to the hill you can march your line to the bottom and use TZ to pin them in place. If you line up opposite the junction of the spears you can pin 10 elements with only 9 of yours. That leaves 3 elements to destroy the Ps and threaten the camp. I would take a Blade and a Warband against the Ps and another blade through the opposite wood. Which way will the Anglo-Saxon general go? Cheers Jim Or you could pin them in the same way and overlap the flanks of the Sp on their left flank...a recoil is enough to destroy the element and flank the entire Saxon line.It doesn't matter what element you choose as your twelfth element as it counts anyway in overlap....but I would choose Ps as it can then move against the Saxon camp,remain to provide overlaps as you fight along the Saxon line or harass/slow the enemy general if he attempts to join in. |
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Post by skb777 on Feb 11, 2023 13:22:17 GMT
Dp you win if you capture the camp?
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Post by jim1973 on Feb 12, 2023 13:18:03 GMT
Dp you win if you capture the camp? No. It counts as one element lost. Jim |
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Post by skb777 on Feb 13, 2023 11:22:35 GMT
Is the tactical conundrum why would you choose a force with no combined arms? I'd do the same threaten the camp, send 2 units around the wood and another 2 through and Send a unit to pin the PS down, see what he does. maybe someone can set a board up and play it out  |
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Post by Brian Ború on Feb 13, 2023 13:16:06 GMT
Is the tactical conundrum why would you choose a force with no combined arms? ... Sometimes you have to choose the lesser of two weevils...  For example, if you had to show up at a tournament either with vikings III/40b (almost all 4Bd CF +5/+3) or Norse Irish III/46 (mostly Ax CF +3), which would you choose? They are both unbalanced and you need some experience to use any of them right...but the vikings are much stronger. |
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Post by skb777 on Feb 13, 2023 15:19:40 GMT
Is the tactical conundrum why would you choose a force with no combined arms? ... Sometimes you have to choose the lesser of two weevils... For example, if you had to show up at a tournament either with vikings III/40b (almost all 4Bd CF +5/+3) or Norse Irish III/46 (mostly Ax CF +3), which would you choose? They are both unbalanced and you need some experience to use any of them right...but the vikings are much stronger. In that case, I'd probably through a sickie ion that day Brian. I'd at least pick the PS or Wb option. |
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Post by Brian Ború on Feb 18, 2023 15:48:56 GMT
... maybe someone can set a board up and play it out Hold on, I'll check. By the way, the scenario/picture uses a very big battlefield of 18 BW in square, regular would be 15 BW. That leads to long battle lines... |
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Post by Brian Ború on Feb 21, 2023 15:36:56 GMT
Is the tactical conundrum why would you choose a force with no combined arms? ... And sometimes it is even the better choice. A few months ago at my first tournament I chose to lead Sea people against various chariot and bow heavy armies (e.g. NKE) on big battlefields (80 cm x 80 cm). Seeing that fast blades are really quite fast in terrain (and strong against foot) and considering that the use of common terrain features would lead quite surely to wide open spaces of GG, I soon forfeited the option of Psiloi and relied nearly completely on heavy and fast blades, one heavy chariot general and some warband. Their average CF against foot measured more than 4.2! Secondly I considered myself as a quite unexperienced player, so I felt not sure at all about the best use of Psiloi. Most of the times as the aggressor I could deploy my army to my favour, most of the time with my fast blades as a menace on a wing with BG or RG or on both wings. The outcome of the tournament baffled me completely and made me very happy, because in the end I indeed reached 2nd rank, and the only battle I Iost was against the champion of the year before. (And his 4 HCh, and I'm quite sure, that Ps wouldn't have helped me at all in this massacre of 4 to 6). |
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Post by skb777 on Feb 21, 2023 23:03:17 GMT
Is the tactical conundrum why would you choose a force with no combined arms? ... And sometimes it is even the better choice. A few months ago at my first tournament I chose to lead Sea people against various chariot and bow heavy armies (e.g. NKE) on big battlefields (80 cm x 80 cm). Seeing that fast blades are really quite fast in terrain (and strong against foot) and considering that the use of common terrain features would lead quite surely to wide open spaces of GG, I soon forfeited the option of Psiloi and relied nearly completely on heavy and fast blades, one heavy chariot general and some warband. Their average CF against foot measured more than 4.2! Secondly I considered myself as a quite unexperienced player, so I felt not sure at all about the best use of Psiloi. Most of the times as the aggressor I could deploy my army to my favour, most of the time with my fast blades as a menace on a wing with BG or RG or on both wings. The outcome of the tournament baffled me completely and made me very happy, because in the end I indeed reached 2nd rank, and the only battle I Iost was against the champion of the year before. (And his 4 HCh, and I'm quite sure, that Ps wouldn't have helped me at all in this massacre of 4 to 6). A psiloi. a psiloi. My Kingdom for a psiloi |
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Post by Brian Ború on Feb 22, 2023 13:10:01 GMT
Nay, there was something with a horse in there. Cavalry? Knights!
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