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Post by twrnz on Oct 2, 2016 2:10:24 GMT
How do you find catapults and artillery in DBA 3.0?
Do you find them to be a must have type troop type, in those lists that allow them, or are they something to be ignored where possible?
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Post by timurilank on Oct 2, 2016 5:57:21 GMT
How do you find catapults and artillery in DBA 3.0? Do you find them to be a must have type troop type, in those lists that allow them, or are they something to be ignored where possible? Artillery are an option for the Middle Imperial and Late Roman army. In all the test games, this was dropped in favour of the 4Bw element.
My Bosporan did field them in their test games, but as defender the artillery were constantly out of position.
I am finding them less appealing as the games move too quickly for the artillery to respond (extra pip cost + move - no fire).
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Post by vodnik on Oct 2, 2016 6:55:37 GMT
...if your opponent has any elefants or war wagons an artllery piece is a good choise becaise of the quick kill:  ...a sitting tiger from Essex painted by Zakpainter... |
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Post by twrnz on Oct 2, 2016 18:43:24 GMT
Impressive painted and presented model.
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Post by twrnz on Oct 2, 2016 18:50:05 GMT
I am finding them less appealing as the games move too quickly for the artillery to respond (extra pip cost + move - no fire). Yes, the PIP cost is high and the time to relocate can be problematic. I've found them useful on the flanks and useful in one game against war wagons. Perhaps the pace is slower when facing this type of opponent. I have not used an army with two catapults or artillery. |
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Post by arnopov on Oct 2, 2016 20:43:38 GMT
How do you find catapults and artillery in DBA 3.0? Do you find them to be a must have type troop type, in those lists that allow them, or are they something to be ignored where possible? I like Art in general. Not a must have element (as a few 3Bd would be), but often better than most alternative choices. A single Art can be quite nice on a flank, can stay behind and is a threat to most elements, also gives a player thinking of dumping a fort something to think about. A lot more resilient in CC than under 2.2, but some surprising weaknesses, to Bw shooting (or even to WWg shooting), or to El (lost an Art/El duel at the last PAWS, not really surprising, I did the maths on the old fanaticus, and the El has a slight advantage.) 3 Art, now that is good fun: the Ming+Koreans allies did well in a themed tournament in August. The Art was part of a mixed Art/Bd/Bw/Cv line. |
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Post by bob on Oct 2, 2016 21:00:56 GMT
I like to put my artillery on a road if the road is towards the center of the battlefield. Then I can move it for no pips.
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Post by davidconstable on Oct 4, 2016 5:00:00 GMT
At the recent Bakewell competition which was compulsory LH and ART I did think about going for a low terrain number (0 or 1), then deploying two roads across the board where the armies deployed.
I was then going to deploy the artillery only on the road, so I could move them to where needed, everything else was going to be deployed one base width behind the road. I did not try it in the end, and went for Ottomans and being the attacker most of the time.
David Constable
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Post by Haardrada on Oct 5, 2016 10:45:43 GMT
I like to put my artillery on a road if the road is towards the center of the battlefield. Then I can move it for no pips. Getting your artillery onto a road virtually gives you a rail gun.lol In 2.2 I used to avoid choosing artillery as I frankly just couldnt get my head round how to use it effectively, plus the only army I had at that time that could use artillery was Late Swiss that had no other shooty. Since I swiched to 3.0 I also aquired a Jurchen army that can choose artillery and can drag along some chinese subject crossbowmen to support it. With armies high Aggression factor you can quite often be the attacker and have the "advantage" of seeing the defenders deployment before you deploy allowing you to choose which part of the enemy army you want your artillery to shoot at. By choosing the 2 crossbow elements with your artillery you have a nice little "battery" that can provide fire support and a bit of protection for your artillery against mounted attack and can be deployed anywhere in your battle line.There are two disadvantages to this as your still vulnerable to high combat factor foot and the lack of mobility when firing. |
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Post by Cromwell on Jan 30, 2017 17:22:18 GMT
How do you find catapults and artillery in DBA 3.0? Do you find them to be a must have type troop type, in those lists that allow them, or are they something to be ignored where possible? Artillery are an option for the Middle Imperial and Late Roman army. In all the test games, this was dropped in favour of the 4Bw element.
My Bosporan did field them in their test games, but as defender the artillery were constantly out of position.
I am finding them less appealing as the games move too quickly for the artillery to respond (extra pip cost + move - no fire).
Not yet explored the 3.0 Army lists yet as I am still using my 2.2 armies for 3.0 which is no problem as I play solo. But you mention only Middle Imperial and Late Roman Army has the option of artillery. My 2.2 Early Imperial Romans have artillery so I assume thats a change in the 3.0 list |
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Post by timurilank on Jan 30, 2017 17:51:50 GMT
The Early Imperial Roman still have artillery, but this is listed on the same line with the lancers (3Kn), horse archers (LH) or dromedari (LCm) as options. You have a lot of choice with this list.
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Post by macbeth on Jan 31, 2017 1:27:34 GMT
I have just finished Cancon's big DBA Event and on the second day (books III and IV) I took the Southern Sung Chinese - 1xCv(Gen), 1x3Kn, 2x4Bd, 4x4Cb, 2xArt 2x7Hd.
I won 4 Games from 6 by
1) Laying out the bad going to narrow the fighting area
2) Setting up a valley of death that involved Art flanked by Cb and Solid Bd on the end (giving the Cb some side support). The Cv and Kn were held in reserve as was the Hd, but effectively the Hd was usually just spectating.
3) Trying to blow away as much as possible before the enemy before they got in amongst it. Once they hit me I tended to fold up like an origami crane.
2xArt especially with some Cb support are a truly frightening weapon. In the two games I lost I did make 3 kills and it could have swung the other way if I'd survived that round of combat.
There was one player at the event who brought along French Ordonance with Condotta allies and had 3xArt on the table. This can also be done with Ming Chinese and Yi Dynasty Korean.
Cheers
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Post by primuspilus on Feb 1, 2017 17:40:22 GMT
Hard to beat Classical Indians without an artillery piece. Their Ellies make a great screen against HI (by getting stuck in and tying them down for a few bounds) while the Indian dance-y, charge-y and shoot-y elements work their way in elsewhere...
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Post by jdesmond on Feb 2, 2017 9:25:17 GMT
Salutations, gentlefolk,
Apologies if this may take this thread offtrack, but I've always thought that artillery was the 'sore thumb' of the DBA/DBM system.
For most combat in the pre-rifled-musket era, combat strength depended on massing soldiers together, shoulder-to-shoulder, to get maximum spear or sword or bayonet points, or arrows or Brown Bess's shooting, for a given frontage, able to push aside 'swarms' of less organized troops.
This, however, made them bigger targets for big arrows, rocks, or cannonballs, and unable to dodge without disrupting their formation.
But with artillery operating on the same combat system as other troops in DBA/DBM, it can blow away psiloi, while a pike phalanx 'cocks a snook' at the ballistae.
Do you think this is:
A - a minor problem
B - a historical inaccuracy, but can live with it
C - a reason to avoid Arty in your OOB
D - Here's our house rule
E - Other (Would think up more alternatives, but oughta just get another hour of sleep)
Thanks for your patience with this digression.
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Post by vodnik on Feb 2, 2017 9:54:06 GMT
...for a few armies you need artillery:  ...an imperial Roman army without art is a poor one but a spear-thrower is a solid insurace against mounted troops...  ...but an Ottoman army with a lot of mounted troops has a good use for a cannon... |
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