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Post by medievalthomas on Sept 9, 2022 16:15:27 GMT
Have sent out feelers re acquiring IP but so far not much response.
In the meantime I emphasize that the system is fully supported. We do rule inquiries on a regular basis. I've updated HOTT to DBA 3.0 standards and combined the two as D3H2 (and fully support that system).
Also have done an introductory version to all DBX type gaming (the basic game of A Game of Knights & Knaves) and a full high medieval specific historical variant (the advanced game of A Game of Knights & Knaves). Pondering now an Ancient Historical version.
So in now sense is the excellent 3.0 engine which we literally worked on a near daily bases for 2 years going to be allowed to go to waste.
I'm aware there is some panic about non "Phil" approved. Nothing I can do about that as Phil is no longer able to approve anything even fixing typos.
Let me also say I disagree with brasidas19004 and find the DBA 3.0 system works quite well regarding alignment, the command control system reflects historical reality and Recoiling represents (abstractly) disorder a key element in medieval battle.
I use DBX mechanics for historical battles all the time (we just did one at NashCon). I have written an historical scenario for Joe Collins "Great Battles" and have several as programed learning games in A Game of Knights & Knaves - so yes you can use these mechanics to produce excellent historical results.
The problems in reflecting history are the rigid troop classification system not the basic mechanics. But as anyone who has a copy of A Game of Knights & Knaves, we have already addressed and fixed this problem. Also we made a concerted effort to close loopholes and improve user friendly aspects of the rules (most of the "loopholes" over the years have stemmed from misunderstanding the rules - which are NOT a model of clarity). The rigid system also greatly increase complexity particularly how its presented in the rules but that too is a "solved" problem.
Thomas J. Thomas
Fame & Glory Games
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Post by paulisper on Sept 10, 2022 6:58:47 GMT
Have sent out feelers re acquiring IP but so far not much response. In the meantime I emphasize that the system is fully supported. We do rule inquiries on a regular basis. I've updated HOTT to DBA 3.0 standards and combined the two as D3H2 (and fully support that system). Thomas J. Thomas Fame & Glory Games Hi Thomas. I’ve sent you a PM to chat about this further… Cheers P |
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Post by felixs on Sept 10, 2022 15:55:53 GMT
Here we are at 3.0, and there still appears to be a number of issues, disagreements, etc. DBA and DBM flourished for a while as tournament rules but were never really used much for people who wanted to recreate history. Eventually, the constant attempts to close loopholes opened new ones, and repairing the mechanics with a new edition somehow always results in more of the same issues.
That is the case for all other rules that I am aware of as well. DBA, at least, has two advantages: 1) The author has seriously tried to address these problems. Most of the issues that remain are quite minor. 2) There is a very active and committed community of players who try to interpret and fix the remaining issues.
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Post by cotedelachevre on Sept 13, 2022 22:47:53 GMT
Follow up question: if there is to be a future edition or evolution of DBA 3.0, how likely is it to preserve the existing basing width and depth and figure count scheme? I’d like to paint up and base some additional armies this winter but would prefer not to rebase if new basing requirements might be in the future. Thank you.
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Post by Tony Aguilar on Sept 14, 2022 12:35:09 GMT
Follow up question: if there is to be a future edition or evolution of DBA 3.0, how likely is it to preserve the existing basing width and depth and figure count scheme? I’d like to paint up and base some additional armies this winter but would prefer not to rebase if new basing requirements might be in the future. Thank you. I don't see a big push to change that. |
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Post by medievalthomas on Sept 15, 2022 21:40:55 GMT
Follow up question: if there is to be a future edition or evolution of DBA 3.0, how likely is it to preserve the existing basing width and depth and figure count scheme? I’d like to paint up and base some additional armies this winter but would prefer not to rebase if new basing requirements might be in the future. Thank you. There is not going to be any changes to DBA 3.0 as such, Its Phil's product and he is not able to make changes of any kind. Its the first time in many years I haven't been emailing every week about some ideas for advancing DBX. He's done. As to basing in all my projects I have pledged to maintain the same frontages: 60-mm for 25/8mm and 40mm for smaller scales. Depth is already an issue in 15s but has little real effect on play so its not a great concern. Depth in 28mm I have fixed as: 45mm for Mounted except Fast which is 50mm; Foot: 20mm except Fast which is 30mm. Figure count: 2 Figures for all Lights (Ps/LH); 3 Figures for Mediums (Warband, Bow, Cav, Knights etc.) 4 figures for Heavies (Blade, Spear, Pike, Cataphracts). This is not going to change. So you are safe to base away. Thomas J. Thomas Fame & Glory Games |
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Post by stevie on Sept 15, 2022 22:17:59 GMT
…or be creative, like Paulhannah: see fanaticus.boards.net/post/26203/ . Note that the number of figures on a base has no effect whatsoever on how they perform. It is merely a decorative visual effect…but it can also help to identify different troop types. And the more figures on a base, the more realistic it looks. I myself have gone one step further: see fanaticus.boards.net/post/40902/ |
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Post by bob on Sept 22, 2022 2:46:29 GMT
I am very happy with DBA 3 as it is. There are many other ancients rules of late but my preference has always been to play what I know. Even if there might be a glitch.
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Post by mark leslie on Sept 22, 2022 4:28:24 GMT
Could you not have said all of that about 2.2, 2.0, 1.0? Embrace change and progress Bob, rules fluidity is the bold bright future we all yearn for!  |
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Post by medievalthomas on Sept 29, 2022 21:29:33 GMT
If you are standing still you are falling behind. We have the greatest basic system in all of gaming. But opportunity is not achievement. Many systems ADLG, Triumph, Mort G etc. are expanding by being more flexible though the base systems are inferior. We have all the tools we need to make DBX the best of all works but we still need to reach into the tool box and pick up the tool.
TomT
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Post by Brian Ború on Oct 2, 2022 8:40:49 GMT
If you are standing still you are falling behind. We have the greatest basic system in all of gaming. But opportunity is not achievement. Many systems ADLG, Triumph, Mort G etc. are expanding by being more flexible though the base systems are inferior. We have all the tools we need to make DBX the best of all works but we still need to reach into the tool box and pick up the tool. TomT That's right, TomT! But the question is why do they expand? (Though we think their game systems are inferior.) The answer is easy. (I know how hard it was for me to find my way to DBA.) It comprises these points: - Marketing
- Artwork
- Networking
Take a look for example at ADLG's website. Here all three points are state of the art and linked with each other, so the interested gamer feels at home at once. Now look at our purple book. No pictures and the charme of a telephone directory, and almost unreadable. A dinosaur. So, to sum it up, it's not the rules, but it's the question if the people like them, can use them and feel soon at home with them. And thus fall in love with the game. So what should be done to enlarge the DBA community? Take the core rules, make them readable. Surround them with some tremendous artwork and uptodate layout. Add some (few) playable armies from the army lists and some pictures of corresponding cutout armies and terrain. So that all you need to start a game is this teaser, some time and some dice. Publish it for free online and printed in game stores and clubs. And find a good publisher/designer who can put the whole rulebook into shape, print it's version 4.0 and sell it as a kind of beautiful bible and useable encyclopaedia to our hobby. And who can provide good online ressources. This would be the successful way of DBA into the future. Brian |
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Post by stevie on Oct 2, 2022 10:02:44 GMT
An excellent post Brian…I couldn’t agree more with you. 👍 👍 👍
For my own purposes I’ve taken the DBA 3.0 rules and ‘sectioned’ them into an easier to understand form.
Here is a sample; items in italics are my additions, and square brackets are page and paragraph numbers:-
DISTANT SHOOTING [10.2]
Range: Only Bows, Artillery and War Wagons can shoot. Maximum range is 5 BW if Artillery and 3 BW if Bows or War Wagons.
Measuring: Measure range between the closest points of the shooting edge and the target edge (often from the shooter's corner).
Shooting Edge is either (a) the front edge of a Bow or Artillery element, and any edge of War Wagons, or
(b) any 1 BW portion of the perimeter of a city, fort or camp that is garrisoned by the shooting element.
Target Edge is either (a) all of, or any single ½ BW portion of, an element edge, or (b) any ½ BW of the perimeter of a city, fort or camp.
Shooting angle: The target edge must be entirely within 1 BW of directly in front of part of the shooting edge (see figures 15a and 16a).
Cannot shoot if uncrossed lines joining the ends of the shooting and target edges have part of any element between them (see figure 15c).
Targets [10.3]: Shooting is not possible if either shooters or target are in close combat, or when providing rear support, but is possible to or from
elements that are overlapping and not in close combat (see figure 15c). Targets exposed by outcome moves can be shot at.
Moving and Shooting: Artillery can shoot only (a) in their own bound if they did not move, or (b) to shoot back at enemy artillery shooting at them
during the enemy bound. Bows and War Wagons cannot shoot if they have moved more than 1BW this bound (nor may mounted infantry – see FAQ).
Shooting blocked [10.4]: A hill’s crest, a city or fort, or a ½ BW depth of difficult hills, woods, oasis, dunes, hamlet or edifice blocks shooting from
and at an element base edge entirely beyond any of these.
Rivers and marshes: An element that is at least partly in a river or marsh cannot shoot. Elements entirely in a gully cannot shoot or be shot at.
Shooting Priorities: Bows and War Wagons must shoot at a target in their TZ. If there is none, they must shoot at a target that is shooting at them.
If neither, they can choose any eligible target. Artillery can always choose its target in its own bound and can shoot through or over enemy Psiloi.
Support shooting [10.5]: A second or third element shooting at the same target aids the shooting of the nearest by providing it with a tactical
factor instead of being resolved separately. Any more elements shooting at that target this bound have no effect.
3rd party shooting: if a shooter whose target doesn’t shoot back is shot at by a third party, resolved this first, then shoot using the same dice roll.
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Post by Brian Ború on Oct 2, 2022 13:43:02 GMT
An excellent post Brian…I couldn’t agree more with you. 👍 👍 👍 For my own purposes I’ve taken the DBA 3.0 rules and ‘sectioned’ them into an easier to understand form. Here is a sample; items in italics are my additions, and square brackets are page and paragraph numbers:- DISTANT SHOOTING [10.2]
...
Thank you very much, stevie! I appreciate that.  Yes, some clear rules, easy to read, that is an essential step. Basically there are two ways open for marketing and growth: The official way of a publisher who takes care of everything and holds the IPR. (But I wonder who might be interested and if it really was that profitable. By the way, who gets the money when I buy a purple book? That is, who has the rights of DBA 3.0?) And the unofficial way of the amateur supporters, like Tony's Youtube channel and WADBAG's game introduction in the US, or the Suiss gamers with their german introduction to v.2.2 (thanks to vodnik I believe). For my own part, every now and then I'm active on boardgamegeek.com. Recently I updated some official links there. I really was shocked, that they had been missing! And I wonder how one could establish a kind of German association... (so many possibilities here!) Brian |
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Post by medievalthomas on Oct 5, 2022 17:03:35 GMT
If you are standing still you are falling behind. We have the greatest basic system in all of gaming. But opportunity is not achievement. Many systems ADLG, Triumph, Mort G etc. are expanding by being more flexible though the base systems are inferior. We have all the tools we need to make DBX the best of all works but we still need to reach into the tool box and pick up the tool. TomT That's right, TomT! But the question is why do they expand? (Though we think their game systems are inferior.) The answer is easy. (I know how hard it was for me to find my way to DBA.) It comprises these points: - Marketing
- Artwork
- Networking
Take a look for example at ADLG's website. Here all three points are state of the art and linked with each other, so the interested gamer feels at home at once. Now look at our purple book. No pictures and the charme of a telephone directory, and almost unreadable. A dinosaur. So, to sum it up, it's not the rules, but it's the question if the people like them, can use them and feel soon at home with them. And thus fall in love with the game. So what should be done to enlarge the DBA community? Take the core rules, make them readable. Surround them with some tremendous artwork and uptodate layout. Add some (few) playable armies from the army lists and some pictures of corresponding cutout armies and terrain. So that all you need to start a game is this teaser, some time and a die. Publish it for free online and printed in game stores and clubs. And find a good publisher/designer who can put the whole rulebook into shape, print it's version 4.0 and sell it as a kind of beautiful bible and useable encyclopaedia to our hobby. And who can provide good online ressources. This would be the successful way of DBA into the future. Brian Brian: We have already done this: A Game of Knights & Knaves its a general introduction to DBX gaming with readable rules and diagrams incorporated into the text. It has a sample campaign, army lists for medieval Europe included and several historical battles. Its available on WargameVault. I strongly recommend it for introducing people to DBX type gaming. The purple book though is Phil's and though we are exploring how to gain more direct control this aspect of DBX (the 12 element tournament game) will remain as is but its not how to introduce DBX to the general gaming public. TomT |
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Post by Brian Ború on Oct 6, 2022 11:12:44 GMT
That's right, TomT! But the question is why do they expand? (Though we think their game systems are inferior.) The answer is easy. (I know how hard it was for me to find my way to DBA.) It comprises these points: - Marketing
- Artwork
- Networking
... Publish it for free online and printed in game stores and clubs. And find a good publisher/designer who can put the whole rulebook into shape, print it's version 4.0 and sell it as a kind of beautiful bible and useable encyclopaedia to our hobby. And who can provide good online ressources. This would be the successful way of DBA into the future. Brian Brian: We have already done this: A Game of Knights & Knaves its a general introduction to DBX gaming with readable rules and diagrams incorporated into the text. It has a sample campaign, army lists for medieval Europe included and several historical battles. Its available on WargameVault. I strongly recommend it for introducing people to DBX type gaming. The purple book though is Phil's and though we are exploring how to gain more direct control this aspect of DBX (the 12 element tournament game) will remain as is but its not how to introduce DBX to the general gaming public. TomT Sounds fine! After a bit of searching I finally found it on boardgamegeek, but its site there was quite empty ... 1 (!) picture only, 0 ratings, 0 comments ... Does it really work as a teaser into the wonderful universe of DBA? I hope so. Good luck, then! Cheers, Brian |
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