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Post by dpd on Jul 30, 2022 17:12:56 GMT
Current rules relegate polearms to a special 6BD unit type, along with standard blade (4BD) and fast blade (3BD).
I'd like to suggest a new category "Polearms" (PA) which comprises what was considered to be a 6BD unit.
This unit would be to BD what pike (PK) is to spear (SP), a two handed weapons category with its own tactics and formations.
Replacing polearms in the 6BD category would be units armed with long swords. This give the following BD unit types:
3BD - Fast "Raiders" (Dacian falxmen, Norse Vikings, Japanese Samurai, Spanish rodeleros)
4BD - Standard "Short Swords" (Celtiberian foot, Roman republic legions, Mithridatic infantry, Roman imperial legions)
6BD - Extreme "Long Swords" (Roman Patrician legion armed with long spatha instead of short gladius, Byzantine scutatoi, Landsknecht Zwiehanders, Italian condotta sword)
The new PA category would also consist of three types:
3PA - Fast "Jacqueries", peasants and local militia armed with improvised weapons and farm implements (Flemish goedendags, peasants armed with flails, war scythes, and guisarmes) the Flemish showed that these troops could be effective even against heavily armored knights)
4PA - Standard "Battleaxes", armored troops armed with two-handed spartha type axes (Danish warriors, Saxon huscarls, Byzantine varangers, Irish gallowglass)
6PA - Extreme "Halberd", true polearms in deep formations armed with variations of the halberd (Byzantine menavlions, Swiss halberdiers, English billmen, Japanese naginata)
Thoughts or comments?
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Post by timurilank on Jul 30, 2022 19:20:27 GMT
Current rules relegate polearms to a special 6BD unit type, along with standard blade (4BD) and fast blade (3BD). I'd like to suggest a new category "Polearms" (PA) which comprises what was considered to be a 6BD unit. This unit would be to BD what pike (PK) is to spear (SP), a two handed weapons category with its own tactics and formations. Replacing polearms in the 6BD category would be units armed with long swords. This give the following BD unit types: 3BD - Fast "Raiders" (Dacian falxmen, Norse Vikings, Japanese Samurai, Spanish rodeleros) 4BD - Standard "Short Swords" (Celtiberian foot, Roman republic legions, Mithridatic infantry, Roman imperial legions) 6BD - Extreme "Long Swords" (Roman Patrician legion armed with long spatha instead of short gladius, Byzantine scutatoi, Landsknecht Zwiehanders, Italian condotta sword) The new PA category would also consist of three types: 3PA - Fast "Jacqueries", peasants and local militia armed with improvised weapons and farm implements (Flemish goedendags, peasants armed with flails, war scythes, and guisarmes) the Flemish showed that these troops could be effective even against heavily armored knights) 4PA - Standard "Battleaxes", armored troops armed with two-handed spartha type axes (Danish warriors, Saxon huscarls, Byzantine varangers, Irish gallowglass) 6PA - Extreme "Halberd", true polearms in deep formations armed with variations of the halberd (Byzantine menavlions, Swiss halberdiers, English billmen, Japanese naginata) Thoughts or comments? Dpd, Byzantine menavlatoi were not employed in deep formation. The Praecepta Militaria written by Emperor Nikephoros Phokas II (963-969) describes the weapon and how they are employed. |
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Post by dpd on Jul 30, 2022 19:24:51 GMT
IIRC though they could deploy as a single line protecting the front of the infantry formation, they also operated independently as their own deep formation, usually on the flanks of the main infantry unit.
Other than that what do you think of this idea?
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Post by timurilank on Jul 30, 2022 19:41:17 GMT
IIRC though they could deploy as a single line protecting the front of the infantry formation, they also operated independently as their own deep formation, usually on the flanks of the main infantry unit. Other than that what do you think of this idea? I have no problem with the suggestions as a local house rule. Playing DBA since version 1, there is still much to learn using the current troop types, their tactical employment, terrain selection and optimal placement. It never ceases to amaze. |
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Post by hoffmannsama on Jul 30, 2022 20:54:54 GMT
3PA sounds like it could be classified as a 5Hd, 7Hd, or 3Bd, since Bds can kill Knights on a tie.
4PA's units sound like they could fit into 4Bds or 4Wbs. I say 4Wb, because I imagine not ever single man in that unit carrying a large two handed axe, but a varied amount of weapons, especially for the Danes and Saxons.
Also, 6Bd is considered FAST in DBA 3.0, so units like Byzantine scutatoi, probably should stay Sp, or be 8Sp like in some of the army lists. As they shouldn't be moving at the speed of Psiloi and other FAST elements.
I agree DBA has some rough edges, but a lot of it makes sense, in its mad mad mad mad world, but that doesn't mean some things shouldn't change, I have my own personal gripes about DBA 3.0, maniples, eastern army lists, Lh, 3Sp, general's elements, etc.. I highly suggest reading through the first paragraph under Troop Definitions on Pg 5. It explains how the elements are designed on battlefield behavior instead of "formations, armour, weapons, and morale classes."
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Post by martin on Jul 30, 2022 21:14:07 GMT
This approach is in danger of reinventing Newbury Fast Play rules (+1 if armed with extra dagger, -1 skipped breakfast, +1 the suns in the enemy’s eyes etc, etc).
Details and complications can obfuscate and detract from the rule set’s fast play ethic, tbh. But whatever floats yer boat…
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Post by pawsbill on Jul 30, 2022 21:35:43 GMT
Current rules relegate polearms to a special 6BD unit type, along with standard blade (4BD) and fast blade (3BD). No. The 6Bd category relates to early Swiss Halberdiers ONLY. All other Halberdiers (including later Swiss) or similarly armed troops are 4Bd or 3Bd. I'd like to suggest a new category "Polearms" (PA) which comprises what was considered to be a 6BD unit. Given the above, I presume you want this Polearm category to include more than just 6Bd Swiss This unit would be to BD what pike (PK) is to spear (SP), a two handed weapons category with its own tactics and formations. Replacing polearms in the 6BD category would be units armed with long swords. This give the following BD unit types: 3BD - Fast "Raiders" (Dacian falxmen, Norse Vikings, Japanese Samurai, Spanish rodeleros) 4BD - Standard "Short Swords" (Celtiberian foot, Roman republic legions, Mithridatic infantry, Roman imperial legions) 6BD - Extreme "Long Swords" (Roman Patrician legion armed with long spatha instead of short gladius, Byzantine scutatoi, Landsknecht Zwiehanders, Italian condotta sword) The new PA category would also consist of three types: 3PA - Fast "Jacqueries", peasants and local militia armed with improvised weapons and farm implements (Flemish goedendags, peasants armed with flails, war scythes, and guisarmes) the Flemish showed that these troops could be effective even against heavily armored knights) 4PA - Standard "Battleaxes", armored troops armed with two-handed spartha type axes (Danish warriors, Saxon huscarls, Byzantine varangers, Irish gallowglass) 6PA - Extreme "Halberd", true polearms in deep formations armed with variations of the halberd (Byzantine menavlions, Swiss halberdiers, English billmen, Japanese naginata) Thoughts or comments? Before we can consider the merits of this idea, how would these Polearm troops work in the rules? How would their combat factors and results differ? |
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