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Post by martin on Apr 22, 2022 7:51:11 GMT
Thanks for locating that thread đđźđđź. The pros and cons are covered well by Scott Russell in the thread. I was initially reluctant to âgo 20mmâ, but have done so now, as it fits my view of historicity of base sizes (in general) and playability overall (and glad I did). As he comments, there is a possibility of being destroyed more easily on a 20mm base, but for me ease of play wins. |
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Post by Baldie on Apr 22, 2022 9:36:11 GMT
So it seems we have finally got a conclusion.
1. Base up an army with all options and use 15mm for the HI.
2. Base up some additional HI but this time on 20mm bases, flock em a bit different do it is easy to identify them
3. Realise you dont like the look of having two different types of bases
4. Do another set of units and match them to the basing for the HI you did on 20mm bases
5. Bask in the glory of two armies one with 20mm HI and one with 15mm HI
Simples
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Post by paddy649 on Apr 22, 2022 19:38:01 GMT
So it is agreed that 20mm HI basing gives an advantage when compared to 15mm basing. Now we must recognise that most wargamers, especially competitive wargamers, are keen advocates of min/maxing to enhance their chance of winning. If they can get an advantage theyâll take it! Thatâs why we pour over Army lists! Finally, as a DBA community, we must recognise that we hang on every word or stroke of the pen in the Purple Book. The words of Barker are indeed law!
With this in mind we should ask ourselves what he meant by: âPlayers should keep as closely as possible to the minimum depths. Larger alternatives are to accommodate figures based for other rule sets or over-large figures.â Did he mean:
âLarger basing alternatives are equally as valid as any other and therefore should be the de facto choice for all competition games if they grant a tactical advantage.â âŚ..because that is where we are now!
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Post by stevie on Apr 22, 2022 21:44:35 GMT
You may be looking through the wrong end of the telescope Paddy. I certainly donât think his Holiness Phil Barker intended to say:- âYou must fit your figures on these sized bases, and if they wonât fit then you canât use these rulesâ. Or âBoycott figure manufactures whoâs figures wonât fit, and refuse to buy their productsâ. He is just facing reality and recognizing that some figures today wonât fit on bases designed in the 1970âs. So, rather than turn people away, he is trying to accommodate them. And the fact that 20mm deep HI bases has a slight advantage over 15mm deep ones is just an unforeseen side effect...not a deliberate design feature. But as I said before, all is not lost. If this is considered to be a major issue then:- (a) if you have heavy foot on 20mm deep bases, they still recoil 15mm. ---OR ALTERNATIVELY--- (b) If you have heavy foot on 15mm deep bases, they will recoil 20mm. That way everybody will be treated equally.  |
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Post by paddy649 on Apr 23, 2022 7:12:17 GMT
Nope Stevie, thatâs the same view I have! I was pointing out where the current interpretation of that rule actually puts us, even if PB wrote it with good intentions. Also, so far I am alone in supporting your rule suggestions which would address the issue. It would be great to hear from others.
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Post by stevie on Apr 24, 2022 10:53:11 GMT
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Post by skalde on May 26, 2022 11:07:43 GMT
It is done!
I had the great idea to not only paint this army for a tournamen, but a Warmaster army too, for a local tournament 2 weeks later. Amazing planning on my end. Anyway, first army is done, and I am quite happy with the result. It's mostly speedpaints and some very simple freehands. I will DEFINITELY not use wire spears unless absolutely necessary; those little bastard sticks might be my new least favourite hobby thing  .
Anyway, pictures:
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Post by jim1973 on May 26, 2022 12:43:33 GMT
It is done!
I had the great idea to not only paint this army for a tournamen, but a Warmaster army too, for a local tournament 2 weeks later. Amazing planning on my end. Anyway, first army is done, and I am quite happy with the result. It's mostly speedpaints and some very simple freehands. I will DEFINITELY not use wire spears unless absolutely necessary; those little bastard sticks might be my new least favourite hobby thing  . Looks great! Any tips with Speedpaints on 15mm? I'm just starting with them on 28mm. Cheers Jim |
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Post by skalde on May 26, 2022 12:55:05 GMT
It is done!
I had the great idea to not only paint this army for a tournamen, but a Warmaster army too, for a local tournament 2 weeks later. Amazing planning on my end. Anyway, first army is done, and I am quite happy with the result. It's mostly speedpaints and some very simple freehands. I will DEFINITELY not use wire spears unless absolutely necessary; those little bastard sticks might be my new least favourite hobby thing . Looks great! Any tips with Speedpaints on 15mm? I'm just starting with them on 28mm. Cheers Jim What I found is one very important thing: They are super fugitive. If you paint over a speedpaint layer with other colours, chances are you will loosen the layer below. If you use water, the effect is even more pronounced (on the flipside, you can use water as kind of an eraser in places, which is definitely a plus). A separation layer of varnish may help, but that depends on the product.
Apart from that, which takes experience, they are amazing, and I like them way more than contrast - better flow, better colours. Painting the aforementioned Warmaster army has been a blast. |
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Post by skalde on Jun 7, 2022 13:28:33 GMT
So, the tournament took place and I thought I'd post a short report to close out the thread. Spoiler: Since I was new and almost everybody else was a veteran, I got absolutely tabled almost all of the time . But that was expected and the event was very fun, nonetheless.
Game 1 - II/42b Tamil Indian First game of the day and against a human opponent ever. My opponent got to deploy the terrain and flooded the board with woods. What little open space remained was filled with Elephants and Bows. My cavalry got swept away by distant shooting, while the fights in the woods went unlucky for me. The Spears more or less stared down the Elephants - the idea was to not gift him the PIPs of moving them to then fight on terms that were not exactly in my favour. In restrospect, I should have probably been a little more aggressive with them, especially since the rest of my army performed so poorly. I killed nothing in this game and lost decisively.
Game 2 - II/74a Palmyran I cdon't remember much about this game, except that my 8Sp got killed by a lucky Artillery shot . That, combined with me essentially feeding my psiloi and cavalry to my opponent sealed my second defeat.
Game 3 - II/20? Ptolemaic Army This game was actually kind of close. One flank was a battle between mounted and light troops and I managed to get several good positions - enemy elements 3 deep, full flank contacts, etc. But the dice were not on my side and the flank was slowly pushed back. I got two kills in this game, both lucky rolls in unfavourable situations. The center held, but in the end, I lost the game on the flanks. Nonetheless, this was the game where things started to click a little.
Game 4 - II/31h Hellenistic Greek: Athenian Army This was the only game I really cared about because my opponent was the only other non-veteran in the tournament. Not quite as green as me, but I felt here I had a chance. He wanted to try out a littoral landing with the athenians, which I managed to exploit: Despite my main fighting force being tied down on the flank (because I misjudged how far in he would likely be landing), this led to his landing force being overextended. He tried to relieve them with his cavalry which I managed to intercept and destroy. My first and only victory of the day, but to me, the only one that mattered  .
Game 5 - II/16b Asiatic Early Successors: Demetrios' Army My last game was against the leading player and eventual tournament victor. My hopes were especially low, but I think I managed to at least not make it all too easy for him. This game cemented my feeling that I had very little idea of what to do with my cavalry - it was used to keep the enemy mounted occupied while my Spears tried to roll up against the enemy pikes. They performed well, and there were several situations where I could have turned it around, but the dice were not so favourable as to counter my lack of sound decisionmaking . In the end, another loss, albeit harder fought than some other games of the day.
So, in the end, I think I handled the army rather badly. I was too fearful of losing my Sp, while being too careless with my Cv and Ps (somehow I always forgot that the get killed by Kn...). I learned to like the fact that Sp don't pursue as I saw Pk maneuvering into bad situations several times. I felt that I would have wanted some shooting or something "dangerous" like Kn or Wb, as I don't think I could quick-kill anything. I will pursue that line of thought with more armies .
There was also a bring-and-buy, which I managed to largely ignore. I only purchased an I/6 Early Bedouin Army and some various Chinese, both largely Essex and some other manufacturers.
The next tournament will have the theme "Book I untill 500BC, minimum 1 chariot". As luck will have it, both my purchases qualify - I/6c Early Aramaean has LCh general, while I will use the Chinese models to build I/32c Other Spring &Autumn Chinese with a whopping HCh .
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Post by gregorius on Jun 7, 2022 23:20:52 GMT
Nice report Skalde. Good to see that you weren't discouraged by your losses. Mastering such a "simple" game as DBA does take some time. I've been playing DBA since version 1 and I am still learning. And congratulations on your 1st face-to-face win.
Cheers,
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Post by Baldie on Jun 8, 2022 13:46:05 GMT
Looks like a great time to me.
I have been playing this wonderful game and still get my ass handed to me regularly.
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Post by skalde on Jun 8, 2022 17:40:53 GMT
Nice report Skalde. Good to see that you weren't discouraged by your losses. Mastering such a "simple" game as DBA does take some time. I've been playing DBA since version 1 and I am still learning. And congratulations on your 1st face-to-face win. Cheers, Thanks! Yeah I fully expected to be defeated soundly each time. I still have vivid memories of our local group learning HotT a few years back. Many games back then were lost suddenly and without much anticipation from either player . And I must say, I like that games in DBA can be so quick if things don't go as planned. I finished two games in roughly thirty minutes, which left me with enough time to watch other games, browse the bring-and-buy,etc. It makes for a great tournament experience - the whole event was super chill, everybody knew that time would simply not be an issue. And we played five games! And ordered pizza, during the delivery of which we finished another round ! In general, I prefer shorter games of anything, because you can simply fit in more mechanics that would be frustrating in a longer session.
Next event though, my goal is to NOT be in the last place  . |
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