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Post by chazz on Sept 28, 2021 20:56:58 GMT
Four elements of SPEARS are engaged in frontal combat with four enemy units. From left to right, does Spear element "B" receive flank support from elements "A" and "C"
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Post by Baldie on Sept 28, 2021 21:26:35 GMT
Hi there you only ever count +1 even if there are three spears in a battleline
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Post by chazz on Oct 1, 2021 20:39:46 GMT
Thank you for your quick response. I assume therefore that a solid bow with supporting blade elements on each side only counts + 1 support.
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Post by paulisper on Oct 1, 2021 21:12:19 GMT
Thank you for your quick response. I assume therefore that a solid bow with supporting blade elements on each side only counts + 1 support. That is correct đź‘Ť P |
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Post by greedo on Oct 8, 2021 19:58:55 GMT
Can I ask why the side support was introduced? I think I get it for 4Bd and 4Bw, but what did it do for 4Sp?
What was the weakness that was being fixed? Was it against 4Pk, against 4Bd?
Not attempting to criticize the decision, because I know it's popular, but just don't quite understand why.
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Post by gregorius on Oct 8, 2021 22:38:05 GMT
Can I ask why the side support was introduced? I think I get it for 4Bd and 4Bw, but what did it do for 4Sp? What was the weakness that was being fixed? Was it against 4Pk, against 4Bd? Not attempting to criticize the decision, because I know it's popular, but just don't quite understand why. I suppose it was introduced to compensate for the loss of rear rank support that Sp enjoyed under 2.2. Cheers |
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Post by medievalthomas on Oct 14, 2021 21:30:12 GMT
It was introduced to more accuratly represent Shieldwall tactics of histoircal Spear. When I introduce it to new players I always call it Shieldwall and not woeful "side support' and then they seem to imedialty understand the rule. Names matter.
As to play balance it fixes the Blades always win problem that plagued earlier versions. Now they just mostly win.
One mistake we made was to get rid of rear support for deeper ranks. The rule should have been you can get a +1 from Rear Support of another Spear OR +1 for Shieldwall. This way you can use both of the common spear historical tactics. It would have also gotten rid of the need for double ranked spear stands. If you take the +1 for Rear Support you gain the Pursue Attribute against all Foot except Ps.
For home games I strongly recommend the above rule.
TomT
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Post by skb777 on Feb 18, 2023 13:09:29 GMT
An element of Spears or “Solid” Bows adds +1 when in frontal close combat in good going against enemy foot if at least 1
flank edge is in mutual side edge and mutual front corner contact with a friendly element: of (a) Spears or “Solid” Blades if
the supported element is Spears, or (b) of “Solid” Blades if the supported element is Bows.
Just checking I have this correct, basically what it is trying to say is spear support spear and blade support bow? So if you have a Theban * Sp would they add +1 for rear support and +1 for side support?
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Post by lkmjbc on Feb 18, 2023 16:30:57 GMT
No, not quite correct.
A:
An element of Spears adds +1 when in frontal close combat in good going against enemy foot if at least 1
flank edge is in mutual side edge and mutual front corner contact with a friendly element: of Spears or “Solid” Blades
B:
An element of “Solid” Bows adds +1 when in frontal close combat in good going against enemy foot if at least 1
flank edge is in mutual side edge and mutual front corner contact with a friendly element of of “Solid” Blades
Tom's reformulation adds a +1 for Sp for rear support as an option. But all the support is maximum of +1
I would add the same for Bow. Again the maximum support is +1.
Does this reformulation help?
Joe Collins
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Post by sheffmark on Feb 18, 2023 16:31:20 GMT
a) Just checking I have this correct, basically what it is trying to say is spear support spear and blade support bow? b) So if you have a Theban * Sp would they add +1 for rear support and +1 for side support? a) mainly correct but Sp also get side support from solid Bd. b) yes and +1 if they are the general, so a tasty factor of 7 v foot, but 3 elements lost if it's the first one to be killed! |
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Post by paulisper on Feb 18, 2023 17:22:52 GMT
No, not q uite correct. A: An element of Spears adds +1 when in frontal close combat in good going against enemy foot if at least 1 flank edge is in mutual side edge and mutual front corner contact with a friendly element: of Spears or “Solid” Blades B: An element of “Solid” Bows adds +1 when in frontal close combat in good going against enemy foot if at least 1 flank edge is in mutual side edge and mutual front corner contact with a friendly element of of “Solid” Blades Tom's reformulation adds a +1 for Sp for rear support as an option. But all the support is maximum of +1 I would add the same for Bow. Again the maximum support is +1. Does this reformulation help? Joe Collins Very clear - have you thought about going into rule writing...?  P. |
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Post by skb777 on Feb 18, 2023 19:36:53 GMT
a) Just checking I have this correct, basically what it is trying to say is spear support spear and blade support bow? b) So if you have a Theban * Sp would they add +1 for rear support and +1 for side support? a) mainly correct but Sp also get side support from solid Bd. b) yes and +1 if they are the general, so a tasty factor of 7 v foot, but 3 elements lost if it's the first one to be killed! It was more trying to interpret the reasoning (I get the +1 for spears i:e a shield wall and blades support bow i:e English 100 Years War etc, just didn't get why blades would support Sp) It would have been handy if they allowed the same for Pike this would allow to act more like, well a pike really.
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Post by stevie on Feb 19, 2023 17:35:08 GMT
I think it’s because of the Polybian Romans Skb777.
With only two Triarii Spearmen, and four Legionary Blades,
the Sp can still gain side-support to boost their combat factor,
and be just as powerful as the Bd.
(Which makes sense...otherwise why would the Romans weaken their army)
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Post by skb777 on Feb 19, 2023 20:51:53 GMT
I think it’s because of the Polybian Romans Skb777. With only two Triarii Spearmen, and four Legionary Blades, the Sp can still gain side-support to boost their combat factor, and be just as powerful as the Bd. (Which makes sense...otherwise why would the Romans weaken their army)Maybe, quite why pike aren't afforded the same ability I don't know. ! element of pike = 8 ranks deep, which is the same as a hoplite element.
Mark
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Post by stevie on Feb 19, 2023 23:18:17 GMT
Ah, but Hoplite shields were large, and cover not only the man carrying it,
but also partially covers the man to their left (allowing overlapping shield walls).
Ancient Phalangite Pikemen had small shields, so they could be in tighter
formations, which were not so useful for forming overlapping shield walls.
(Besides, a pike requires two hands, so their shields merely hung from a strap)
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