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Post by bob on May 28, 2021 21:29:03 GMT
Does this section of the rule mean an element can pass through an enemy element threat zone (sometimes called ZOC)? If so, then what is the restriction of the rule? In a recent game, a new player read this to mean an element can move from left to right to pass through the 1 BW area as long as it moved all the way through. I could not find a way to disagree☹
CROSSING AN ENEMY ELEMENT'S FRONT No element can make a tactical move within 1 element base width distance in front of an enemy element (see P.68) or within 1 base width distance of an enemy stronghold except in any of the following circumstances:
• To pass through, over or under it. The move must clear the enemy base.
The "it" is the base width area?
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Post by stevie on May 29, 2021 1:09:49 GMT
I think your new player may be misinterpreting the 5th bullet point in the ‘ZOC’ section Bob.
Paraphrasing in order to make things clearer we get:- “* To pass through it, over it, or under it. The move must clear the enemy base.” (In other words, this is referring to the interpenetration of an enemy element)
This is confirmed by Diagram #1 on page 28:- “Thus an enemy element’s tactical move would be restricted if it was in position X1, or X2, but not if in position X3 (unless its move entered the square).” (i.e. once X3 has entered the ZOC square, X3 couldn’t simply pass through the ZOC, as its options would become restricted to either moving straight forward towards the enemy generating the ZOC, into contact with that enemy, to line up with that enemy, to interpenetrate that enemy, or to move straight back, just like X1 and X2)
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Post by sheffmark on May 29, 2021 9:02:28 GMT
As Stevie says, I think the 'it' refers to the element, not it's base width area.
This makes sense if you see this point as being put in to allow for, and to clarify the paragraph above, which specifies the occasions when troops can pass over, under or through troops.
So, for example, an aerial could fly over an enemy element, through its threat zone, to it's rear, provided it ended up clear of the enemy's base, but it could not fly along the front of a line of enemy elements through their threat zones, as it wasn't flying over the unit.
At least that's the way I read it.
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Post by bob on May 31, 2021 4:56:48 GMT
The situation was his wanting to fly with an aerial through my elements TZ. So he can fly over it? Can a ground element, then move under certain aerials if so allowed. Is there somewhere a chart showing allow moves involving ground and aerial Threat Zones vis a vis each other? In our recent Lord of the Rings campaigns there were all sorts of aerials-- flyers, gods, dragons and air boats and much confusion about what to do. 10 players with 0 to 2 to 30 years experience and the others did not take my interps:)
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Post by stevie on May 31, 2021 9:05:36 GMT
I too at first found the concept of Aerial movement and combat a little confusing. Perhaps the best way of thinking about it is to realise that in HoTT all elements are treated the same, and all of them generate and are affected by ZOC, but Aerial troops have special interpenetration abilities (i.e. under or over). It is also important to note is that ALL close combat involving Aerial troops, even air-to-air, is done at ground level (allowing ground troops to also participate). Here is a list of all the sections containing rules affecting Aerial elements:- Troop Definitions [page 6, section1 “Aerials”] Element AP Costs [page 10, section 2 “AP Costs”] Bad Going for Aerials [page 10, “Bad Going” section] Entering Woods or a BUA [page 18, section 4 “Terrain Restrictions”] PIP Costs [page 15, section 1, first bullet point] Command Range [page 15, section 1, second bullet point] Movement Speeds [page 19, section 2 “Movement Chart”] Aerials in Groups [page 15, section 2 “Groups”] Interpenetration [page 16, section 2 “Passing Over/Under”] When in a ZOC [page 16, section 3, fifth bullet point] When in Water [page 18, section 3 “Crossing Water”] Contacting the Enemy [page 17, section 1, last three paragraphs] Deploying Lurkers [page 14, section 1, third bullet point] Shooting at Aerials [page 20, section 2, bullet point 2] Uphill or Water Bank [page 22, section 2, fourth “Tactical Factor”] Bad Going Combat [page 22, section 2, bottom “Tactical Factor”, third bullet point] Combat Outcomes [page 23, section 2 “Outcome Chart”] Recoiling into Woods/BUA [page 24, section 2, fifth bullet point] If Pursued [page 24, section 2, at the bottom of the page] Pushed Back Troops [page 25, section 1, passing through, under or over] Fleeing Aerials [page 25, section 2, passing through, under or over]See also the lower Diagram on page 35 about Aerials contacting but choosing not to fight, yet are still able to overlap the enemy (elements P, O, L and J). Some time ago, in order to make HoTT easier to understand, I made a “Pure HoTT 2.1 Crib Sheet” that has all the various obscure and scattered rules all laid-out together in their relevant sections, and this can also serve as an easy to follow play-sheet. A copy of it can be found here:- ibb.co/WPfbcTG
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Post by sheffmark on Jun 5, 2021 8:50:41 GMT
The situation was his wanting to fly with an aerial through my elements TZ. So he can fly over it? Can a ground element, then move under certain aerials if so allowed. My understanding is yes in both cases, (though not sure what you mean by "certain aerials") This is what I take the 5th bullet point in the last section on page 16 to mean. However if, for example an aerial approached a ground element at 90 degrees to it's front and 'pinned' it. The ground element could not then move straight forward out of the ZOC but would have to turn and actually move under the aerial and clear its base, (or complete any of the other options open to it). As Stevie says, once an aerial is in actual close combat it is assumed to be on the ground so could not then be passed under.
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Post by stevie on Jun 5, 2021 9:41:29 GMT
When Bob says ‘certain aerials’ I think he is referring to the following.
Page 16, section 2, “Passing, Over, Under, Or Through”, 4th bullet point:- “Any ground troops can pass under enemy flyers or (enemy) aerial heroes or friendly aerials if these are not already in close combat.”
Note there is no mention of moving under enemy gods, dragons, or airboats, so these prohibit movement ‘through’ them, even when not in close combat.
(In other words, any ground troops trying to move under these will be zapped by lightning bolts, fiery breath, or dropped bombs, so cannot pass beneath them. Exceptions: Sneakers and Gods can pass through any enemy, be they in combat or not)
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Post by sheffmark on Jun 5, 2021 14:35:26 GMT
Thanks
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