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Post by snowcat on Jun 16, 2021 4:10:16 GMT
You could always go the ADLG way which is essentially 30mm deep bases for most foot in 2 ranks, and mounted in 1 rank. Exceptions such as Pk are often 40mm deep in 3 ranks. Etc.
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Post by stevie on Jun 16, 2021 7:11:32 GMT
You could Snowcat, indeed you could…
…but that will mean re-basing, and nobody likes doing that,
which is why we are still stuck with the antiquated WRG depths.
My plan is much simpler:-
Have DBA ‘elements’ on 1 BW square ‘stands’ of thin card,
held in place with double-sided sticky tape for easy removal.
This not only looks great, it also makes playing on an actual
or Virtual Grid soooooo much easier and less complicated.
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Post by decebalus on Jun 16, 2021 9:07:18 GMT
New depth rules for DBA are the wrong way (and nobody will rebase their armies). Rules have to be written in a way, that base depth is absolutely irrelevant.
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Post by snowcat on Jun 16, 2021 9:08:06 GMT
Yes, true. I should have added that the 30mm deep infantry bases are 2 close order foot DBA bases for those who don't re-base in ADLG, and 40mm deep infantry bases are 2 loose order foot DBA bases for those who don't re-base in ADLG, or 3 ranks of Pk 40mm deep for those who elect to re-base for ADLG. It's basically as DBx-friendly as you can get.
I see where you're going though.
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Post by stevie on Jun 16, 2021 9:34:08 GMT
New depth rules for DBA are the wrong way (and nobody will rebase their armies). Rules have to be written in a way, that base depth is absolutely irrelevant. Having all ‘units’ (note the name change) on 1 BW deep ‘stands’ IS making depth irrelevant. They’ll all be the same. I suppose you could have one DBA ‘element’ on a 1 BW deep ‘stand’ (but that looks crap for most foot). Or, since there’s room, have TWO DBA foot ‘elements’ on a ‘stand’ (which looks great and very realistic). Not only does it make depth irrelevant, it also makes the number of figures per ‘stand’ irrelevant. Oh, they’ll still retain their current abilities, but the number of figures becomes purely decorative. Plus it makes playing on an actual or virtual grid dead simple. And all it takes is a thin piece of card 1 BW square slipped beneath your existing DBA ‘bases’. I can’t make it simpler than that!  |
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Post by nangwaya on Jun 16, 2021 9:52:50 GMT
If you also made those removeable bases a bit deeper than any base being used for your figures, it would be a great place to put casualty/disruption markers for games that use them.
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Post by davidjconstable on Mar 20, 2022 10:51:00 GMT
I suffered changing base depths from 1969 till 2018, I am serious about those dates.
It has always surprised me why wargamers cannot work out some standard sizes, but I suppose we all have our preferences.
And lets face it, we do not like changing our base sizes.
David Constable
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Post by stevie on Mar 20, 2022 13:39:15 GMT
I suffered changing base depths from 1969 till 2018, I am serious about those dates. It has always surprised me why wargamers cannot work out some standard sizes, but I suppose we all have our preferences. And lets face it, we do not like changing our base sizes. David Constable For those of you interested in a serious simplified version of DBA, see fanaticus.boards.net/thread/3154/new-simple-ancient-battle-rules...which contains more details and diagrams about base sizes, by using temporary removable thin card, so no re-basing will be necessary. |
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Post by davidjconstable on Mar 21, 2022 15:53:49 GMT
It does not matter which set of rules it is, or for that matter figure size, it has to suit everybody.
Years ago my Parthian army was Bill Lamming 25mm figures.
Why - because he did the only SHC that would fit on 15mm wide bases.
People who have spent a long time doing nice bases do not want to rebase of choice.
Adding card is fine, and is an old trick for adding stakes or shields as a temporary measure in front of figures.
My DBA Byzantine army I would never have rebased, because the sand used came from the Manzikert plain.
David Constable
P.S. - If you go back through the Slingshot magazines you will see this is a repeating problem.
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Post by Simon on Mar 21, 2022 16:23:20 GMT
and the solution is .... play on a grid!!
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Post by elliesdad on Mar 21, 2022 17:16:54 GMT
and the solution is .... play on a grid!! Have you seen the fast play 3x3 Portable Wargames (or FP3X3PW as it’s known) at all? In particular you might want to checkout the blog of Archduke Piccolo - he’s just fought an impressive Byzantine campaign chock full of action and ideas. And you can use figures/bases of any size, as long as you are consistent (and they fit in whatever size squares you’ve designed for the battlefield). Bob Cordery’s Wargaming Miscellany is another good place to check, as is the “The Portable Wargame” Facebook page. Cheers, Geoff |
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Post by Simon on Mar 21, 2022 17:36:56 GMT
Hi Geoff. Yes I am following that and am looking forward to Bob Cordery's next book. I have increasingly become a fan of miniatures games on a grid, partly as a result of online Zoom games during COVID. They get rid of all the measuring faff!
Simon
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Post by medievalthomas on Mar 21, 2022 21:40:01 GMT
Having already produced a DBX version that you can literlly teach an 8 year old (it replaces the need for One Hour Wargames) but can then be expanded to something to compete with ADLG MEG etc., I did ponder base depth.
Frontage needs to be the same of course (40mm for small scale stuff and 60mm for modern 28mm).
Depth should be grandfathered in so that no one needs to rebase. If you want to double base depth that's fine but to accomodate all I simple adjusted the Recoil Rule:
Mounted can Recoil 1 Base Depth OR 1 Base Width.
Foot can Recoil 1 Base Depth OR 1/2 Base Width.
So base depth no longer critical.
I also allow rational figure counts: 4 figures for Heavy Types (Spear for example); 3 for Medium types (Bow for example) and 2 figures for Lights (Ps for example). This makes them easy to recognize and the figure count often equals their Combat Factor. Likewise you may optionally base Fast on deep bases (20mm for small scale and 30mm for 28s).
But in all cases you can also just use them as mounted as these options just make the game a bit easier to play (and if your starting a new army in 28mm much easier to mount).
So problem largely solved without anyone having to pop any figures.
TomT
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Post by stevie on Mar 23, 2022 11:55:08 GMT
They say a picture is worth a thousand words...so here are some showing the concept of having all the units on 40mm x 40mm ‘stands’ made from thin green card placed beneath the usual DBA elements and held in position with double-sided sticky tape for quick removal for when reverting back to convention games...so no re-basing is required. (One mounted DBA element per 40 x 40 stand, and two foot DBA elements per 40 x 40 stand) II/33 Polybian Romans  What you see are:- 2 x Velites (Psiloi), 4 x Legionaries (4Bd), 2 x Italians (4Ax), 2 x Cavalry, and 2 x Triarii (Spears). Despite appearances there are 12 units in total, as usual. II/11 Early Cisalpine Gauls (aggression 3)  These have:- 1 x Skirmishers (Psiloi), 6 x Warriors (4Wb), 2 x Cavalry, and 3 x Chariots (LCh, one is the General) These have deployed their 12 units to match the Roman battleline above. The advantages of having everyone on 40 x 40 stands is:- * recoiling and pursuing becomes much simpler (they all recoil or pursue 1 BW)... * it makes playing on an actual or on a virtual grid so much easier (less micro-measuring)... * figures are less likely to fall over on hills (which is annoying)... * and it just looks soooo much better... It's even proportionally correct as well...Romans of this period had 10% of their force mounted, so with 72 foot figures, there should be about 7 or 8 mounted figures (6 is close enough). See fanaticus.boards.net/thread/3154/new-simple-ancient-battle-rules for full details. You could even play a conventional game of DBA with these deep bases, with this addition:- If recoiling from a flank or rear and there isn’t room, stay where you are. If recoiling from an enemy front-edge and there isn’t room, you are destroyed. (Exception: recoiling Elephants trample and destroy all those not in a BUA or Camp, but other friendly units can be pushed back if facing the same direction) It looks better...it’s simpler...and no re-basing is required...so what is there not to like?  |
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Post by davidjconstable on Apr 1, 2022 17:08:49 GMT
and the solution is .... play on a grid!! Tried some years ago with 40mm square with a half size 40x20mm, used 6mm figures. It is interesting and simplifies measurement. I did an experimental board game once for the battle in the Ardennes in 1944, used eight sided figures. It reduced the directions pieces could move in, and reproduced the battle very well, but a pain to draw. David Constable |
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