|
|
Post by timurilank on Aug 1, 2020 15:01:26 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by diades on Aug 2, 2020 10:26:59 GMT
Thank you Timurilank, I learned stuff there! Curious as to which DBA armies should be used. Anglo-Danish, Frank or Viking/Leidang? |
|
|
|
Post by timurilank on Aug 2, 2020 14:19:02 GMT
The battle of 1018 should be viewed as an internal conflict of the Ottonian empire. The difference between the two sides should reflect the resources each could command, the Bishop of Utrecht and the Duke of Lorraine had militia and clerical troops to meet Dirk’s militia and local levy. Use the East Frankish list for the Imperial troops.
III/53 East Frankish
1 x General (3Kn)
3 x milites (3Kn) *
2 x Swabian Bavarian milites (3Kn//4Bd) **
1 x Old Saxon cavalry (Cv) or spearmen (Sp)
2 x archers (Ps) or peasants (7Hd)
Bishop of Utrecht (allied contingent)
1 x General (3Kn) ***
2 x spearmen (Sp
* Supplied by the bishoprics of Liege, Trier and Cologne.
** Other milites would have been provided by the Duchy of Lorraine.
*** Bishop Adalbold II might be considered a CP, does not initiate combat, but will flee.
Reconstruction Vlaardingen 1018.
vlaardingen1018.nl/dsresource?objectid=d540b5c0-85bc-404f-a9c1-904ff00be43e&&disposition=inline
The Battle of Vlaardingen 1018, link has an excellent map of the battle.
www.keesn.nl/vlaard/vlaard_en.htm
Count of Frisia, Dirk III
From the video and internet sources, the army that fought the Imperial troops where at its core a militia augmented by the local levy but experienced at fighting Viking raiders.
The peat swamp area of the Rhine delta is littoral home terrain for the West Frisians. No cavalry, yet Dirk III did mount a horse during the course of the battle.
Purely conjectural, ‘solid’ troop types (4Bd/Sp/4Ax) and ‘fast’ (3Ax/Ps/5Hd) in a ration of 1:2 seems about right.
Just a suggestion, the Imperial troops were seized with panic when the Duke of Lorraine was presumed dead, this can be simulated by a pip score of one. Subsequent turns, troops move as having lost their general until a (6?) is cast.
|
|
|
|
Post by diades on Aug 2, 2020 15:40:17 GMT
A good recommendation and far more researched than mine, but I have an inkling to use the III/1a Northern Slavs to represent Dirk, against III/53 East Frankish for the empire. It kind of "feels" right...
|
|
|
|
Post by timurilank on Aug 2, 2020 16:08:29 GMT
A good choice.
My first thoughts were the Free Canton (IV/13e) as these are East Frisians with a similar aptitude for commercial enterprise.
The spearmen (3Pk) are less hindered by peat swamps and would tenaciously pursue enemy recoiling.
|
|
|
|
Post by diades on Aug 2, 2020 16:31:42 GMT
I think my weekly skype opponent has agreed to give the Slav vs East Franks variant a go next Saturday. Watch the battle reports for how it goes!
|
|
|
|
Post by diades on Aug 9, 2020 15:56:05 GMT
A good choice. My first thoughts were the Free Canton (IV/13e) as these are East Frisians with a similar aptitude for commercial enterprise. The spearmen (3Pk) are less hindered by peat swamps and would tenaciously pursue enemy recoiling. Battle Report posted. I didn't fare as well as Dirk this time! We had no house rules. All of our recent historic match ups have played by matched pair tournament rules, so my opponent chose the Franks. I had the terrain, but it's placement did no go well. After that I did not have enough luck and was outplayed. Definitely worth another go though. Many thanks for the inspiration. |
|
|
|
Post by timurilank on Aug 9, 2020 19:51:02 GMT
A good choice. My first thoughts were the Free Canton (IV/13e) as these are East Frisians with a similar aptitude for commercial enterprise. The spearmen (3Pk) are less hindered by peat swamps and would tenaciously pursue enemy recoiling. Battle Report posted. I didn't fare as well as Dirk this time! We had no house rules. All of our recent historic match ups have played by matched pair tournament rules, so my opponent chose the Franks. I had the terrain, but it's placement did no go well. After that I did not have enough luck and was outplayed. Definitely worth another go though. Many thanks for the inspiration. Good battle report.
‘Alternative tax planning’? – perhaps an offshore system? 
You might want to try the Battle of Leuven (891 AD) which I posted a scenario.
Vikings vs. East Franks
dbagora.blogspot.com/2018/07/891-ad-battle-of-leuven.html
The battle refought.
dbagora.blogspot.com/2018/07/891-ad-refighting-battle-of-leuven.html
|
|
|
|
Post by goragrad on Aug 10, 2020 2:11:20 GMT
Interesting scenario.
Have the Ottonians, need to get some figures painted for their opposition (whichever option).
|
|
