aristonicus
Munifex
The man from Lucania returns..
Posts: 25
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Post by aristonicus on May 11, 2020 14:11:24 GMT
I have some questions regarding the right way to base the III/4b Early Byzantine & III/17 Maurikian Byzantine cavalry that I hope that someone can help me with. To wit:
- In the III/4b list the Kavallarioi can be Cv or 6Cv; and the notes on the list say that boukellarioi practise may have spread to the rest of the cavalry. Horse armour hadn't been copied from the Avars yet but had been advocated.
I take this as meaning that the Cv base should have 3 cavalry armed with bows & spears or lances with the alternative 6Cv base as being 3 lancers in the front rank as lancers with horse armour and the rear ranks with bow (essentially like the 6Cv in the Maurikian list). Have I got this right?
- In the III/17 Maurikian Byzantine list you have the option of using 6Cv or Cv. Are the Cv the "Defensores" and should all be depicted as bow armed - per the notes "Some of the bow-armed could instead form on the flanks of the lancers (which were then called "Defensores")". Though given that you can take the all Cv option instead of a mix of 6Cv and Cv, perhaps a mix of lancers and bow armed on the same base makes more sense. Anyone got any ideas on this? Sadly I don't have the DBMM list to check what they are trying to depict here.
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Post by timurilank on May 11, 2020 19:03:23 GMT
I have some questions regarding the right way to base the III/4b Early Byzantine & III/17 Maurikian Byzantine cavalry that I hope that someone can help me with. To wit: - In the III/4b list the Kavallarioi can be Cv or 6Cv; and the notes on the list say that boukellarioi practise may have spread to the rest of the cavalry. Horse armour hadn't been copied from the Avars yet but had been advocated. I take this as meaning that the Cv base should have 3 cavalry armed with bows & spears or lances with the alternative 6Cv base as being 3 lancers in the front rank as lancers with horse armour and the rear ranks with bow (essentially like the 6Cv in the Maurikian list). Have I got this right? - In the III/17 Maurikian Byzantine list you have the option of using 6Cv or Cv. Are the Cv the "Defensores" and should all be depicted as bow armed - per the notes "Some of the bow-armed could instead form on the flanks of the lancers (which were then called "Defensores")". Though given that you can take the all Cv option instead of a mix of 6Cv and Cv, perhaps a mix of lancers and bow armed on the same base makes more sense. Anyone got any ideas on this? Sadly I don't have the DBMM list to check what they are trying to depict here. Aristonicus,
I have two Early Byzantine commands and the cavalry are mounted on a mix of armoured/unarmoured horses as I was at the mercy of the manufacturer’s packaging (Old Glory). These are not DBE but are based as Cv.
The term ‘defensores’ are the bow armed Kavallarioi detached to protect the flanks of the cavalry column on the march (Byzantine manual - Tactica). Circumstances may call for them to serve as scouts or flank guards during a battle.
Old Glory package a few bow armed cavalry which I have based as LH thereby killing two birds with one stone.
If you wish to bow arm a second rank of a double based element, that is not a problem as any excess cavalry you accumulate can be used for other armies.
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Post by jdesmond on May 11, 2020 19:26:25 GMT
With the Early and Maurikian Byzantines, we have bit of 'hangover' of ye Army Lists of WRG 6th Edition, from back in the 80's, which featured quantites of elite ('Regular A' and 'Regular B') cavalry, half-armored horses ('EHC'= extra-heavy cavalry) armed with lance, bow & shield (LBSh). 'The Rolls-Royce of Byzantine armies...'. The Essex figures date from that era.
Since then, more original material has become available, eg. Dennis' translating, and changing rules and lists. But people with 'old lead'...
Will fire up the scanner if you really want.
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Post by Haardrada on May 11, 2020 21:12:23 GMT
I think another influence on the Early and Maurician armies is Maurice's Strategikon which gave guidelines on how the cavalry were to be equipped.I would take it that some measures would have been implemented... to what degree we can only speculate.You could conclude an army led by the Emperor himself would be up to code or in the process and those led by other Generals or stationed away from the center of the empire would not be so well equipped. I used BZA3 for my main Cavalry but asked essex for half my packs be supplied on half armoured horses and the other half on the normal unarmoured horses(essex were most compliant.. many thanks).I made this choice as I wasn't too fond of the pose of BZA3 and that essex do armoured Cavalry archers but they are later in period and I felt would not blend right with the lance armed figures... If they did one in simular armour and helmet then I would have considered it.
As for the difference between 3Cav and 6Cav you have two options, the most expensive is to by both or to save on cost mount the front rank and rear rank as 3Cav elements so you can use them as either... joining them together on a temporary base when you want to field them as 6Cav elements.
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Post by scottrussell on May 13, 2020 16:53:28 GMT
You can mount the 6Cv as a wedge if you offset the middle rank. So one lance at the front, three bows at the back and two lancers forming a middle rank taking advantage of the fact that horses are a sort of elongated oval shape. This may be a hang over from 6th ed too, where being in a wedge formation was a considerable advantage, but it does look quite good!
Scott
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