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Post by primuspilus on Jan 18, 2020 21:36:30 GMT
So how would you handle flyers and dragons in DBA v3 fantasy? I am thinking Targaryens here, as well as Eagles.
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Post by felixs on Jan 18, 2020 23:22:33 GMT
So how would you handle flyers and dragons in DBA v3 fantasy? I am thinking Targaryens here, as well as Eagles.
Not easy. DBA 3 clearly has some limitations as a set of rules for fantasy battles.
Eagles could be depicted as Light Horse, I find that unproblematic.
Dragons are hard. I have no idea on how to depict flying, powerful dragons in DBA 3. Flightless dragons could be 6Kn or El.
I do not know what "Targaryens" are.
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Post by primuspilus on Jan 19, 2020 5:58:03 GMT
Targaryens were a House in Game of Thrones - groomers and owners of dragons.
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Post by felixs on Jan 21, 2020 9:37:09 GMT
Targaryens were a House in Game of Thrones - groomers and owners of dragons.
Ah, OK. So they would need one or more ways to depict dragons, I assume.
Not quite sure on how to do that. For light flyers, I find Light Horse to work OK. For heavy flyers, there is no good solution.
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Post by stevie on Jan 21, 2020 12:43:25 GMT
“House Rule” it Felixs, “House Rule” heavy flyers into DBA 3.0! Nick the HoTT aerial rules in their entirety if you have to. (it’s not as if you are inventing new stuff...the aerial rules have already been tested and approved. You’d just be ‘cross-pollinating’ as it were)
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Post by primuspilus on Jan 21, 2020 22:15:21 GMT
I thought the way you could handle them is to allow them to be placed in contact on a PIP roll, with enemy in the open, a bit like Lurkers (or Ye Holy Dive-Bombers). Then they flee off map, are destroyed, etc, etc... Avoids having to lug them around the board, and eliminates all the rules verbiage.
If they are placed in contact within range of Bows, or Artillery, well then some nastiness of a suitable calibre shall befall them, etc etc?
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Post by primuspilus on Jan 21, 2020 22:16:17 GMT
And then airboats = aerial warwagons?
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Post by rhaksha on Jan 22, 2020 8:47:05 GMT
And then airboats = aerial warwagons? Oh I like that idea!
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Post by medievalthomas on Jan 22, 2020 22:19:29 GMT
Re Targaryens: in D3H2 the Young Dragons (as a collective of 3 initially and as they mature as a single) are represented by Flyers, Mature Dragons by, well Dragons, and when Dany learns to ride: Flying Aerial Hero. It works reasonably well. For more Dragony Dragons see A Game of Knights & Knaves.
As to Hobbits, you need to get a bit out of the box if you don't want just a generic version where Hobbit Spears are the same as High Elf, Spartans, Swiss Pike etc. versions.
So lets see:
Start with Hobbit Militia which would be Medium Foot (so +3) with Spears (so they get Drive Off v. Mounted ie Recoil on Equals). All Medium Foot are Loose Order so Rough & Bad don't penalize them (very Hobbity).
Add some Hobbit Bow: again Medium Foot but with Bows so they go up +1 v. Mounted (so count +4) but there not Longbows/Crossbows so go down -1 v. Foot (so count +2). But Hobbits have one great abiity (besides eating) and that's missile accuracy so lets let them roll a d8 for distance combat (if you don't have a d8 just let them re-roll their d6).
Now how about some skirmishers? These would likely be Hobbit youths armed with sling shots and rocks (with an occasional frying pan). So Light Foot (only +2) so also Loose Order but to account for those dead eye projectiles at close range let them roll a d8 also (but not against distance combat - no armor and short range weapons no help here so they will just have to depend on Fleeing!)
But what about the Bounders? OK more Medium Foot but now with Swords/Axes etc. So they go up +1 v. Foot but down -1 v. Mounted (no long pointy things to stick horses with). So they are +4/+2 - better keep to cover also very hobbity).
Finally if you insist on Merry & Pippin as Hobbit Heroes combine them on one base riding their ponies and dressed in their Gondor/Rohan armor but count as a Foot Hero (so they only move 3BW and no Mounted Shock) - ponies only go so fast...but they do count as +5 Heroes.
Of course you also need a Camp and no Hobbit Camp would be complete without a cooking pot filed with conies and vegetables. But if captured the effect on the Hobbits would be traumatic and tragic - "what no second breakfast?!" So its capture counts as a extra destroyed element over and beyond the normal penalty.
Was tempted to make the Hobbits Fast but short legs would some to preclude rapid movement (except those youthful Hobbit Skirmishers) and in any case Hobbit courage seems to manifest best in the most desperate of times so maybe on Equals their stout hearts (though risk adverse) would help them hold on and not Recoil.
To represent Medium Foot glue 3 figures on the base; to represent Light Foot glue 2 figures on the base.
This should give you a characterful and unique army and feel very hobbity on the field and not just another generic Spear army. Several companies have just put out fantastic lines of Hobbit figures and this could be just the excuse you need to buy, paint and field.
TomT
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Post by medievalthomas on Jan 22, 2020 22:27:30 GMT
Yes I'm interested in any unfinished holes you have found in D3H2 - I've gotten lots of feedback on it and all positive with not one finding anything but minor typos.
You complaint about Knights & Knaves was that it used programmed learning using learn as you go games based on historical battles. I've found that new users like to stop and play a game as they grind through a rule book. More experienced players can just skip the programmed learning (though they will miss some great battles if they do). Experience players are likely to mostly use the alphabetical glossary with has all the important rules in easy to look up alphabetical order - which I find works better than parsing through a rule book.
Thomas J. Thomas Fame & Glory Games
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Post by felixs on Jan 23, 2020 7:27:36 GMT
Yes I'm interested in any unfinished wholes you have found in D3H2 - I've gotten lots of feedback on it and all positive with not one finding anything but minor typos. You complaint about Knights & Knaves was that it used programmed learning using learn as you go games based on historical battles. I've found that new users like to stop and play a game as they grind through a rule book. More experienced players can just skip the programmed learning (though they will miss some great battles if they do). Experience players are likely to mostly use the alphabetical glossary with has all the important rules in easy to look up alphabetical order - which I find works better than parsing through a rule book. Thomas J. Thomas Fame & Glory Games
I have found more problems with those rules than just that. But I do not wish to discuss that in this thread.
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Post by felixs on Jan 23, 2020 7:32:32 GMT
As to Hobbits, you need to get a bit out of the box if you don't want just a generic version where Hobbit Spears are the same as High Elf, Spartans, Swiss Pike etc. versions. The point about using DBA 3 for fantasy is to just accept that troop types are a bit generic and that the rules do have some limitations. I have found that there are no rules out there that work exactly as I would like them to. And I do now much prefer a solid and proven set of rules that works for most of the things I want to depict. I can live with some limitations, which is mostly due to my preference for more "muted" fantasy gaming. That has not always been so and I would have insisted that fantasy rules should be able to depict more detail. But for the moment, I am just happy to play a set of rules that work for me as they are.
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Post by medievalthomas on Jan 27, 2020 22:24:41 GMT
We play and I get feedback from others about various versions of D3H2 without any notes re particular difficulties so if you want just start a thread regarding what problems your finding and I will endeavor to fix them.
I don't think "solid" spear represents Hobbits well at all as they were very good in mixed terrain. It kind of defeats the purpose of fantasy to have Hobbits and High Elves with the same basic troop types. And with D3H2 totally unnecessary. DBX mechanics can handle fantasy (we do it all the time) but you must use all the mechanical advantages it offer to make it work. D3H2 was playtested by the same crew I got to knock out over a 100 games of DBA 3.0 when we playtested those rules for Phil. So it has been worked over pretty thoroughly but one of our mantras is playtesting never stops so we are always interested in new input.
Thomas J. Thomas Fame & Glory Games
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Post by felixs on Jan 28, 2020 21:36:33 GMT
Thank you for the offer - I will probably have another look at D3H2 and comment on it in some detail. I do like the idea of it very much. And I understand that it is a lot of work (which I have been too lazy to do myself). So take my criticism with some salt, please.
I don't think "solid" spear represents Hobbits well at all as they were very good in mixed terrain. I
Not quite sure on what accounts we have about Hobbit Spears. In my imagination, they are OK as Solid Sp. Solid Ax would be another option. Fast Pk might be worth a thought.
Hobbits are probably not a very good point of reference anyway, since they are notoriously hard to get "right" (whatever that is) in almost any set of rules that I know of.
I do like how my Elves work - even though they do not have Sp at all - and the possibility to actually play games with them motivated me to finish that army, including decent basing. I also re-did huge parts of my Undead, which look much better now. Orcs might be next in line. Not yet sure what flavour of Orcs I want, but I think I tend towards a Wb-ish interpretation of Orcs. Solid Wb might actually work quite well for Orcs.
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Post by primuspilus on Jan 31, 2020 3:48:25 GMT
Orcs: Fast Hd and Solid Wb. Wargs aren't well-represented in base DBA3. I'd use Cm as the model, but without the QK vs Kn, and treating all BGo and RGo as GGo for movement and combat. Oh and they should pursue.
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