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Post by snowcat on Oct 26, 2019 1:39:20 GMT
What to do with an all-Cv army? (Or say an army with 10Cv and only 2LH).
You have no QK punch, but you do have mobility. The 30" board will assist this.
Then what?
Try to gang up on enemy flanks where they present themselves? Anything else?
Literally a one trick pony this one...or maybe two tricks...
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jeff
Munifex
Painting II/12 Alexandrian Macedonians
Posts: 26
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Post by jeff on Oct 26, 2019 2:58:31 GMT
That's a tough one, anybody willing to face you in the open will likely be at their advantage, either Kn, Sp or Pk. Bd don't even fear Cv. I wouldn't rush into battle, try to focus on one side (particularly one with good going) and leave the other side. Just try and focus on getting your four before you lose your camp.
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Post by paulhannah on Oct 26, 2019 3:26:24 GMT
What to do with an all-Cv army? (Or say an army with 10Cv and only 2LH). You have no QK punch... That's not entirely so. You'll QK Bows all day long and your Cv will snack on any Psiloi they can run across (if in Good Going, of course). |
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Post by snowcat on Oct 26, 2019 3:35:17 GMT
What to do with an all-Cv army? (Or say an army with 10Cv and only 2LH). You have no QK punch... That's not entirely so. You'll QK Bows all day long and your Cv will snack on any Psiloi they can run across (if in Good Going, of course). True, but there's surviving their shooting first that bothers me...  |
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Post by snowcat on Oct 26, 2019 3:38:25 GMT
That's a tough one, anybody willing to face you in the open will likely be at their advantage, either Kn, Sp or Pk. Bd don't even fear Cv. I wouldn't rush into battle, try to focus on one side (particularly one with good going) and leave the other side. Just try and focus on getting your four before you lose your camp. Yes, I think the old refused flank style is the way to go. I'm wondering whether it's worth doing - Avars - or going with a Kn,Cv,LH combo a la Khitans. The temptation of being able to field an all-Cv army that I really like the look of has some appeal.
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Post by mthrguth on Oct 26, 2019 3:48:43 GMT
Bows are rock to cavalry scissors.
To charge bows, you have to move within 4 BW. Bows can move 1 BW then shoot 3 BW. Therefore, the bows will get 2 shots. One when you move into range, then one on their turn. They will be firing at a distance, so can gang up. Potentially this allows a 4-1 bow shotx2 before you get in your first charge, at 3 vs 4.
Bows can exert their influence even if they are set back a bit, so that attacking cavalry is overlapped if they charge in.
Maybe if you had a skirmish screen of light infantry.
Maybe on the 30 inch optional board, and paradoxically maybe with some woods to try to cut down the enemy field of fire and maybe try to get the bows tangled in the woods.
Maybe if you can find some 'special' dice.
Maybe if you come at the bows in a 3 wide column with an overlapping element. The idea is that they can kill 2 lead elements; but maybe your survivors will hit the enemy with an overlap on one side.
Maybe try TRIUMPH, bows are less awesome in that DBA variant.
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Post by snowcat on Oct 26, 2019 4:33:47 GMT
mthrguth - lots to think about there, thanks.
Being a steppe army (and potentially high aggression with Avars) there won't be too many convenient woods getting around. An edifice maybe, but there's that high aggression thing again.
Hey, maybe this is what the subject Slavs were for: Bow soakers!
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Post by mthrguth on Oct 26, 2019 5:58:46 GMT
I forgot to add, play historical opponents.
You can use terrain to help you sometimes. Attacking over a hill crest or dune would be optimal to prevent incoming bowfire. Infantry armies may instinctively run for cover against cavalry, then get gummed up spending extra pips as the cavalry maneuvers in good going.
But, the addition of 'rough going' to the terrain types has made things even harder for cavalry, as this terrain type allows foot to group move, including bow, while negating the 'quick kill' against bows and psiloi that some of the pundits are claiming will give cavalry a chance against infantry armies.
Some 'special' rules for cavalry and LH armies for scenario play. These were used back in the day at HMGS map campaign events.
1. Army with more mounted elements=outscouting, may flank march, treat left and right edges of board as waterway on turn one.
2. Army with more 'mobile' elements, may play with an aggression of ZERO. Makes sense to me, as high aggression can really penalize mounted armies (although big pieces of terrain also can gum up the game and make draws more likely.
3. Allow cavalry to dismount as psiloi if not specified in the list...…
For those of you who never played in a map campaign at HMGS east evens, these were often a highlight of the DBA events (and there were often 9 or 10 over 4 days). Players were distributed across the map of a historical region, assigned armies from a theme. Players draw chits at the beginning of the turn. Low chit gets to 'move' first; that is, move/migrate/ invade into an enemy territory and attack.
If an attacker wins, the loser becomes a 'vassal'. Defenders who win DO NOT make a vassal out of the attacker, they just get a point for a win.
A kingdom is now any player with a vassal.
On the next turn, the 'Overlord' of a kingdom can swap his 'chit' with the chit of a vassal. This gives the overlord a better chance to attack again and expand his kingdom. OR, it gives his vassal a chance to attack and create a vassal of a vassal- a vassal tree!
You get a point for a victory, and a point for every vassal in your vassal tree each turn!
Beware though of the 'red chit', which allows your vassal to leave your vassal tree; taking his vassals with him...…
Attack and defeat a vassal, and that vassal becomes your vassal, and his vassal tree remains intact, and yours.
Just winning games, or munching on weaker armies can become a losing strategy compared with attacking a strong player and making his vassals your own...…
Examples probably exist in the archive.
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Post by mthrguth on Oct 26, 2019 6:00:18 GMT
You could also allow cavalry a double move on the first turn of the game as a special rule...….
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jeff
Munifex
Painting II/12 Alexandrian Macedonians
Posts: 26
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Post by jeff on Oct 26, 2019 6:18:10 GMT
Bows are rock to cavalry scissors. To charge bows, you have to move within 4 BW. Bows can move 1 BW then shoot 3 BW. Therefore, the bows will get 2 shots. One when you move into range, then one on their turn. They will be firing at a distance, so can gang up. Potentially this allows a 4-1 bow shotx2 before you get in your first charge, at 3 vs 4. ] You're mounted. Use the extra mobility to go around the area of fire. Force the line of how to send pips to face you. They probably won't get the bow on you, if they even have that many. They get one shot, recoil you, then you Carve them up. I'll take CV vs bw in the open |
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Post by snowcat on Oct 26, 2019 6:22:13 GMT
But, the addition of 'rough going' to the terrain types has made things even harder for cavalry, as this terrain type allows foot to group move, including bow, while negating the 'quick kill' against bows and psiloi that some of the pundits are claiming will give cavalry a chance against infantry armies. You've lost me here. There's no penalty to Cv QKing Bw or Ps in Rough Going...but there is in Bad Going.
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Post by snowcat on Oct 26, 2019 6:24:04 GMT
Bows are rock to cavalry scissors. To charge bows, you have to move within 4 BW. Bows can move 1 BW then shoot 3 BW. Therefore, the bows will get 2 shots. One when you move into range, then one on their turn. They will be firing at a distance, so can gang up. Potentially this allows a 4-1 bow shotx2 before you get in your first charge, at 3 vs 4. ] You're mounted. Use the extra mobility to go around the area of fire. Force the line of how to send pips to face you. They probably won't get the bow on you, if they even have that many. They get one shot, recoil you, then you Carve them up. I'll take CV vs bw in the open But is even the 30" board big enough to do this? |
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jeff
Munifex
Painting II/12 Alexandrian Macedonians
Posts: 26
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Post by jeff on Oct 26, 2019 6:35:28 GMT
I think the increased movement and range of 3.0 had really shrunk the board. It hurts CV, and is brutal to LH. I think CV can still win by concentrating forces.
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Post by snowcat on Oct 26, 2019 6:49:32 GMT
Hmm, well I'll grab an extra 2" of board width and depth as per the legal board size rules and work my evil Cv moves!
(Ironically I was just looking at TRIUMPH! as per mthrguth's suggestion and it has a much wider board and reduced range for bow shooting relative to Cv move distance, and poorer quality Bw (Bow levy) don't get ranged shooting at all.)
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Post by paddy649 on Oct 26, 2019 6:50:06 GMT
Which army do you have in mind Snowcat?
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