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Post by scottrussell on Jul 13, 2019 16:17:52 GMT
I am planning to use an element of mounted infantry on Monday in my HYW English army. As far as I can see, the Mtd4Ld functions as ordinary 4Lb except it can move at 3Bw per PIP and for up to three moves per bound (with the usual conditions). I am pretty sure there is at least one other difference, related, perhaps, to being recoiled in bad going, but can I find it??? Could anybody please give me a summary of the other differences, if any? Thanks.
Scott
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Post by nangwaya on Jul 13, 2019 16:54:29 GMT
I think you got it all right Scott.
As far as I know, the mounted infantry recoil or get pushed back just like any other mounted element... either 1BW back or its base depth if this is less than 1BW.
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Post by bob on Jul 13, 2019 17:34:01 GMT
Mounted infantry recoil like foot.
Mounted Infantry rules are spread around the rules
This part is in Troop Definitions "A very few armies have mounted infantry (prefixed by “Mtd”). These are on larger bases with their mounts, but remain foot and differ in that in good going they have the same tactical move as knights and can move more than once per bound."
The cryptic part "they remain foot" is supposed to indicate they act exactly like their foot type -- Mounted Bow act like Foot Bow except ...
This is in the Basing Your Models "Mounted Infantry are based as 3-4 foot figures plus a vehicle, led mount or mounted figure. "
This is in the deployment section "Cavalry, Light Horse, Camelry, Mounted infantry and Auxilia or Psiloi must deploy at least 2 BW away from battlefield side edges and others at least 4 BW away."
This is in Tactical Movement section "3 BW If Knights, Elephants, Camelry or any mounted infantry and only in good going, or if “Fast” foot in any going."
This is in the second move section "(a) Light Horse or mounted infantry; and making a second or third move that is entirely in good going."
This is in the Side Support section. You must infer that the rule applies to Mounted Bows if solid as they they remain foot "“Solid” Bows add +1 if supported by “Solid” Blades."
In outcomes, another place for inference, for Mounted Lb and Mounted Cb "If its total is equal to that of its opponent: Knights or Camelry Destroyed in close combat by any Blades or any Bows that are Lb or Cb, " There are Mounted Lb and Cb
for example: IV/43b Hungarian Army for the Crusade of Nicopolis 1396 AD: 1 x General (3Kn), 1 x Hungarian nobles (3Kn), 4 x horse archers (LH), 2 x crusader knights (3Kn), 1 x crusader crossbows (Mtd-4Cb/4Cb), 1 x spearmen (Sp) or crusader ribauds (5Hd), 2 x archers (Ps or 3Bw).
This is in the Beaten section "If its total is less than that of its opponent but more than half: Destroyed if sacking a city or if defenders of a city, fort or camp or denizens or camp followers that have sallied or mounted infantry in bad going."
It is important to note that there are many references to "mounted," such as in combat factors and outcomes, but this does not refer to "mounted" infantry, which as noted in the first example, "remain foot."
Also note that while Phil uses the generic term "mounted infantry" there is only one type of infantry that is mounted, and that is Bows. There are types that dismount from being mounted to being foot such as 3Kn//4Bd. There are 3Cv//3Bw, but these are not mounted bow, these are cavalry that convert into bows -- mounted to foot.
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Post by goragrad on Jul 13, 2019 18:11:25 GMT
Good list bob.
I knew I had seen the 'destroyed in bad going' if beaten outcome, but in a quick look through the rules missed where it was.
Definitely an important item to keep in mind during a game.
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Post by scottrussell on Jul 13, 2019 19:32:04 GMT
Thanks, Bob.
Most comprehensive. Just what I was after.
Goragrad, In the combat outcomes section, "mounted" and "infantry" are at opposite ends of consecutive lines, which is why I missed it when scanning through. But it is there!
Scott
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Post by cotedelachevre on Oct 2, 2022 19:22:45 GMT
Thank you, bob, for collating and interpreting the "mounted infantry" rules.
As far as I can tell, reviewing the army lists, there is only Mtd-4Bw, Mtd-4Lb, Mtd-4Cb, and Mtd-3Bw. I do not see a Mtd-3Lb or a Mtd-3Cb.
Perhaps "mounted infantry" should be called "mechanized bows," to ensure they don't get confused with Mounted troops ...
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Post by martin on Oct 2, 2022 21:07:13 GMT
> I do not see a Mtd-3Lb or a Mtd-3Cb. I don’t have the rules/lists to hand, but is there a Mtd-3Lb in either Feudal English IV/23 or the Hundred Yrs War English a list ??
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Post by cotedelachevre on Oct 2, 2022 21:28:38 GMT
martin,
To my eyes: Purple p. 115: IV/23 (Feudal English) does not provide for any mounted infantry. Purple p. 126: IV/62 a, b & d (100 Year's War English) provides for Mtd-4Lb only.
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Post by martin on Oct 3, 2022 8:21:44 GMT
martin, To my eyes: Purple p. 115: IV/23 (Feudal English) does not provide for any mounted infantry. Purple p. 126: IV/62 a, b & d (100 Year's War English) provides for Mtd-4Lb only. Correct….✔️ However, I’ve found the one I was thinking of- Anglo-Norman has a Mtd-3Bw option….but not Mtd-3Lb. (there’s also an asiatic army which has Mtd-3Bw, on camels, but I can’t find it at the moment….)
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Post by stevie on Oct 3, 2022 10:22:48 GMT
What you are looking for Martin is the IV/24ab Khwarizmians (1 x Mtd-3Bw on camels)… …although their camels don’t fight as camels, they are just there as a visual effect. (Yes, Camels can move through Oasis and Dunes as if these were Good Going, but so can 3Bows)
Here (I think) is the complete list of all the mounted-infantry in DBA:- I/42 Neo-Elamites (1 x Mtd-3Bw General and 2 x Mtd-3Bw) III/11b Other Turks (1 x Mtd-3Bw) IV/3 Anglo-Normans (1 x Mtd-3Bw) IV/5b Sicilians (1 x Mtd-4Bw) IV/16 Scots Common (1 x Mtd-3Bw) IV/21b Anglo-Irish (1 x Mtd-4Lb) IV/24ab Khwarizmians (1 x Mtd-3Bw on camels) IV/43b Hungarian Crusade (1 x Mtd-4Cb) IV/62abd Hundred Years War English (1 x Mtd-4Lb) IV/74 Free Company (2 x Mtd-4Lb) IV/82a French Ordonnance (1 x Mtd-4Lb General and 1 x Mtd-4Lb) IV/82b French Ordonnance (1 x Mtd-4Lb) IV/85a Burgundian Ordonnance (3 x Mtd-4Lb) IV/85b Burgundian Ordonnance (1 x Mtd-4Lb)
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Post by martin on Oct 3, 2022 11:30:31 GMT
What you are looking for Martin is the IV/24ab Khwarizmians (1 x Mtd-3Bw on camels)… …although their camels don’t fight as camels, they are just there as a visual effect. (Yes, Camels can move through Oasis and Dunes as if these were Good Going, but so can 3Bows)So, here’s a thought. I believe that mounted infantry are ‘destroyed if beaten’ in bad going (combat result). Would these random Mtd-3Bw be destroyed in dunes, if they’re camel mounted types…or do they ignore them/treat as good going?? 😵💫. pigeon pigeon pigeon…. CAT ….pigeon pigeon pigeon 😊
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Post by stevie on Oct 3, 2022 12:05:32 GMT
Ha! Is it the camels that are shooting the bows?… Is it the camels that are being cut-down and recoiling?… …or are the camels doing nothing and just standing around behind the dismounted bowmen? I think you can suss out my view…
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Post by aelbert on Oct 3, 2022 13:17:52 GMT
So to recap: mtd 3 bw are not destroyed if beaten in bad going?
Cheers B1
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Post by stevie on Oct 3, 2022 14:06:31 GMT
Er…I'm afraid they are Aelbert.
Page 11, Combat Outcomes, “If total is less than that of its opponent”, quote:- “Destroyed if sacking a city or if defenders of a city, fort or camp or denizens or camp followers that have sallied or mounted infantry in bad going."
(Although why this isn't included in the combat outcomes so that it says:- "Bows Destroyed by any mounted, and Mtd-Inf is destroyed if in Bad Going. If not, recoil." ...is anybody's guess.
It would also help if it said that Elephants are destroyed when they recoil from a BUA gate.... ...instead of hiding this important piece of information on page 12 under recoiling)
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Post by Tony Aguilar on Oct 3, 2022 16:47:56 GMT
Mounted Infantry rules are spread around the rules This is the case for just about everything and one of the reasons I have soured on these rules as of late. It is ridiculous to have played as many games as I have and still have trouble finding stuff. I love these rules (and Phil) but it is an absolute disservice to torture those of us that are trying to promote them.
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