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Post by warlord476 on May 1, 2019 9:38:22 GMT
Long time no visit! But I needed to vent a little and my non-wargame buddies don't get it.
Each time I watch a GoT big battle I sneer at the idiotic tactics. My wife listens with a "yes dear"/deaf ear.
Long Night/battle for Winterfell once again broke my willing suspension of disbelief.
Is anyone producing up to season 8 army lists? I need to dust off my wargame table.
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Post by paddy649 on May 1, 2019 14:30:04 GMT
Are you suggesting that an initial pre-emptive frontal charge by unsupported Light Horse against Hoard with a QK ability isn’t a sound tactic!
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Post by paulisper on May 1, 2019 15:25:15 GMT
Yeh, but they looked f@ckin cool with their flaming swords 😎
P
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Post by primuspilus on May 1, 2019 19:12:31 GMT
I've only seen the "Groan of Thrones" lists. They seem to be as of Season 7. But I have to admit, the whole Ice Dragon melting the Wall scene was just too much for me. GoT jumped the shark for me at that point. Hey, YMMV, but I am not about to build up armies past Season 7. Up to that point, there was still some good HotT-ish stuff for me and mine to game. I think leaving the WW out as just an annoying Undead army living beyond the Wall, and tending to cause Wildling raids as well as preventing recon activities by the Night's Watch was probably a far better plot line given what GoT seemed to be trying to achieve for the last 7 seasons.
The whole pitched Battle of the Pelennor Fields rerun, complete with Frodo the 3-eyed Raven/ Bran the Ringbearer seems lazy to me ...
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Post by medievalthomas on May 2, 2019 20:57:14 GMT
I have done army lists for all the major houses. All are in D3H2 form because you need the troop types from DBA 3.0 to make them work as they are based on the books not the goofy HBO version.
I have even better lists and complete campaign for A Game of Knights & Knaves which uses modernized DBX mechanics.
Battle of the Blackwater made decent sense but this episode was written by Martin and followed the book version fairly closely (OK they did not have a chain).
Battle of the Bastards did a good job of a grunts eye view of a medieval battle.
Fighting reanimated undead was much better done in the books in the Battle of Fist of the First Men than in the HBO version (though Hardhome wasn't bad).
We have fought several "King of the Hill" type campaigns set in Westeros.
Read the book versions if you want to make better sense of medieval tactics/weapons adapted to a fantasy setting.
Great setting for campaigns and one off battles (have done Battle of the Green Fork many times).
Thomas J. Thomas Fame & Glory Games
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Post by paulisper on May 2, 2019 21:01:30 GMT
But I have to admit, the whole Ice Dragon melting the Wall scene was just too much for me. GoT jumped the shark for me at that point. Funny... I thought it was absolutely inspired. Different strokes for different folks, I guess 😜 P
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Post by primuspilus on May 3, 2019 1:29:56 GMT
Cheap, crappy, and intellectually lazy. Like most things produced by Millenials for cinema these days.
Could have had so much deeper a plot line. Oh well, I guess I prefer my plots deep, and my characters deeper.
Night King? What a bloody wanker. And boring as f##k to boot. Just my $0.02. Pardon my crankiness. Kinda frequently find myself wishing we'd lost the Cold War. Heck, maybe we did! LoL...
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Post by Vic on May 3, 2019 7:36:58 GMT
Cheap, crappy, and intellectually lazy. Like most things produced by Millenials for cinema these days. This Millennial concurs with your opinion on the episode!
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Post by Tony Aguilar on May 3, 2019 13:22:15 GMT
Everyone is complaining about the battle tactics etc. in this last scene and how stupid they were. While I agree with that I still can't get over the perfect timing of Arya's strike with Jon's standing up to the dragon. One millisecond later and it is too late. How about a 5 minute difference? I am fed up with this "just in the nick of time" scenes in EVERY DAMN MOVIE/SHOW nowadays.
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Post by primuspilus on May 4, 2019 6:17:47 GMT
Cheap, crappy and intellectually lazy. As usual.
You know in our household we are getting way better drama, suspense and challenge from DBA and HotT than from any movie or TV show.
So liberating when you reach that point. Next step: ditch the smart phone ...
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Post by Simon on May 4, 2019 16:49:30 GMT
There ius a very amusing TV review of the latest episode of GOT in the Times Review supplement (Saturday).
Simon
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Post by primuspilus on May 5, 2019 1:58:00 GMT
I had planned to do GoT armies, and go for campaign gaming for the Iron Throne. Now, after what is going on with this series, I am planning instead on Anglo-Saxons and Vikings, and the battles of Alfred the Great. The Last Kingdom while itself not perfect, seems to have been a far better series. But GoT the HBO show is exactly what you get when the author of the books can't get his S^^T together to finish the series, and turns it over to a script-writing project instead. The worst of both worlds. Sucks, because I think up to the end of book 5, there was still something of value in the direction the story was taking. Is Martin no going to have to scrap the Winds of Winter, and rewrite ... again? Hey I'm not blaming Martin! He is laughing at his constituents all the way to the bank. Nicely done! But it is harder and harder for me now to get as fired up for the Iron Throne, after all this. I guess I just found out the Iron Throne is really just a resin-molded copy, and there are apparently whole bunches of them all over the place ...
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Post by warlord476 on May 5, 2019 10:53:45 GMT
This how I plan to run it. Before you flame me, this is not as a re-enactment, it uses the elements of the drama to set up a meaningful defence.
Like Pelennor Fields the special terrain is key.
It's interesting, looking from the TV's defence and trying to point cost i get a bloated 40 plus points. Stripping down the Night King to his essentials I get a manageable army with only slightly too many 3+ pointers.
Winter Army God: the successful invocation of the God of Winter begins the battle. While present, cloud cover is total, and there is no dawn. Other than this mass effect the God has no presence. The God departs when the Night King rolls a PIP of 1. Cost 4. Aerial hero general (Night King). The dragon mount seems not to make any attack that takes more than one element in one round, so there is no need to pay dragon points. Cost 6. See special rules for dismount and wall attacking. Cleric sub-command White Walkers. In a big battle these would roll PIPs but in this version their function is to exert line of command regardless of aerial hero general placing. They can apply PIPs to sacrifice elements. Cost 3. 11 more points from Hordes.
2 handicap points owing to higher-point "overhang" are donated to the defence for bonus fortifications.
Allied Army Jon Snow as 1 x Hero General, accompanied by various other heroes. Cost 4. Daenerys with two dragons as 1 x Dragon. Cost 4. 1 x Artillery. No backstory on where it came from but 500p range, yep I'll take that. Cost 3. Dothraki loyal to Daenerys as 2 x riders. Cost 4. Northern armies loyal to Jon Snow as 2 x Warband. Cost 4. Unsullied loyal to Daenerys as 2 x Spear. Cost 4. Flaming ditches as Lurkers. Cost 1 initially.
Special rules for the attacking side 1. Full cover cloud limits command. The Night King can wield command directly, normal rules applying, or through his White Walker cleric support element within 1200p, and they in turn must be in contact with elements they command. Being above the clouds counts as being beyond 1200p, meaning that a 2 minimum PIP must be rolled to move other elements. 2. While aerial the Night King fights as a Hero, obeying the normal rules for Aerial Hero. Specifically he can be destroyed by Hero or Artillery. Otherwise, if a dragon would be destroyed or be forced to flee by the result the Night King dismounts. 3. If the Night King's mount is lost, the Night King heroically lives, counts as ensorcelled, and is placed adjacent to a fortress (not citadel) wall closest to the event, even if that places him adjacent to an enemy figure. 4. The Night King may also dismount voluntarily, though at such time the dragon automatically flees the field. If dismounting voluntarily he must have a full base clearance (other than friendly lurker). The Night King afoot fights as a Paladin. While afoot he can capture the Stronghold on his own. 5. The Night King can summon lurker undead within one base width. If within the fortress walls, but not Citadel, they support attacks on the fortress walls. If within the Citadel they cannot "take" it but support attacks on the Citadel walls. 6. The Night King or his cleric proxy can "burn" one Horde element to make any linear obstacle crossable. Other command and control rules apply to the element to that point.
Special rules for the defending side 1. Only the Citadel counts as a Stronghold for the purposes of victory. Its outer walls may be attacked and end-move-adjacented by the Night King as per Stronghold, but do not end the battle if taken. 2. The outer fortress walls can be occupied by up to any two elements, including Artillery. An occupying foot element creates a -2 factor for attacking elements other than lurkers summoned within, except at points where either an enemy Horde has been "burned" to make the wall crossable, or an aerial Night King has "defeated" them; and even there they still create a -1 factor. 3. 6 PIPs (that may be saved from turn to turn) must be spent to "summon" a burning trench that is no more than 3 base widths length but may be of any angle. Its placement may be adjacent to or under any friendly element. It attacks all non-aerial elements that are on top of it or attempt to cross it, as Lurker, but deducting 2 from them for its terrain. 4. After or on the same turn as the first 6 PIP sacrifice, two more burning trenches may be summoned for 1 PIP per trench, with the same attributes as the first. 5. Other linear obstacles (chevaux de frise from nearby forests, simple rampart and ditch walls) are permitted but must be placed prior to the attacker's first PIP roll. Their minimum length is one base width and the total length of all combined cannot exceed the combined base widths of land elements placed outside the fortress. Linear obstacles of the rampart type prevent enemy contiguous base support, and add 1 for any element defending the obstacle. Linear obstacles of the c-d-f type add 1 for any element defending the obstacle and also 1 for warbands or spears defending across them as though rear-supported, but do not prevent enemy flank support. 6. An undefended linear obstacle may prove to be harder to cross than appears. Even local topography may vary in a manner not obvious given the scale. Roll as for river crossing for each base width crossed. If the element is undead and is entirely lost, the obstacle no longer impedes undead horde crossing in that direction at that base width.
Victory Conditions It hardly needs saying, but this is Stronghold vs Night King.
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Post by Tony Aguilar on May 6, 2019 10:23:08 GMT
Cheap, crappy and intellectually lazy. As usual. You know in our household we are getting way better drama, suspense and challenge from DBA and HotT than from any movie or TV show. So liberating when you reach that point. Next step: ditch the smart phone ... I can't really do this as my smart phone serves as my home computer. I decided to ditch the HC in 2012 and not buy another one - my smartphone serves as it.
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Post by primuspilus on May 6, 2019 13:27:12 GMT
I hear ya, Tony. When my current laptop dies, I am moving to a desktop. I run very big spreadsheets and data science algo's. Desktops are getting cheaper relative, and have boocoo firepower.
I gotta kill the phone though: it's cutting into painting time. My boy wants to do Bo5A: Men of Dale up next.
Night King project got cancelled ... for "political" reasons 😋 Storyline is getting too ridiculous to support the underlying themes.
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