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Post by Vic on Mar 25, 2019 17:11:16 GMT
Recently, in a game, the following situation came up. 
A column of two Cv elements is attacked by two 3Kn elements, one of which has got into a flanking position.
The 3Kn elements win combat, the first Cv element in the column is forced to recoil, but, having the door shut by the second 3Kn element, it is destroyed instead; the 3Kn element in front of it then pursues, and gets in front-edge-to-front-edge contact with the second Cv element.
The question now is, what happens next? Is the flanking 3Kn in a legal position now? If not, does it get a free slide in the next movement phase? If the position is legal, how does it affect the subsequent combat between the 3Kn and Cv elements?
Our interpretation during the game (after skimming through the relevant paragraphs, but admittedly not delving into it in great detail) is that the position of the 3Kn element is indeed legal (although it wouldn't be legal if the second 3Kn element was to move into it now), and that since its front edge is in contact with the side edge of the Cv element, it counts as flanking and will destroy the Cv element if it is forced to recoil.
Thoughts?
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Post by medievalthomas on Mar 25, 2019 17:22:11 GMT
I think both Cav elements are destroyed but I need to check the fine print...
TomT
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Post by greedo on Mar 25, 2019 17:27:59 GMT
I think both Cav elements are destroyed but I need to check the fine print... TomT That's how we played it this weekend. Even thought the 2nd Cv is not giving rear support, it still gets destroyed when the lead column element gets flanked. I do not know about 3rd and 4th elements in the column if they existed however. |
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Post by Vic on Mar 25, 2019 17:32:05 GMT
Ah, interesting. We've only been destroying the second element if it provided rear support.
I'll look for an answer with the Purple Book at home tonight.
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Post by lkmjbc on Mar 25, 2019 17:40:15 GMT
Ah, interesting. We've only been destroying the second element if it provided rear support. I'll look for an answer with the Purple Book at home tonight. Both elements are destroyed. Look under destroyed elements...top of page 12. Joe Collins |
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Post by bob on Mar 25, 2019 18:09:29 GMT
From Sue’s Kindle version: “An element that has an enemy front edge in contact with its side or rear edge is destroyed by recoiling, being pushed back, fleeing or being in a column whose front element is destroyed.“ This rule is the result of weeks of discussion among the play testers. What to do with partial contacts left over if the front element is destroyed and the back element is still flanked. Phil used the Gordian knot solution, cutting through the problem. Destroy them all. Attachments:
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Post by greedo on Mar 25, 2019 18:20:33 GMT
From Sue’s Kindle version: “An element that has an enemy front edge in contact with its side or rear edge is destroyed by recoiling, being pushed back, fleeing or being in a column whose front element is destroyed.“ This rule is the result of weeks of discussion among the play testers. What to do with partial contacts left over if the front element is destroyed and the back element is still flanked. Phil used the Gordian knot solution, cutting through the problem. Destroy them all. To this point, a 3rd element of Cv behind the 2nd would NOT be destroyed because it doesn't have any front enemy edge in contact with it's side edge correct? |
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Post by Tony Aguilar on Mar 25, 2019 19:31:08 GMT
From Sue’s Kindle version: “An element that has an enemy front edge in contact with its side or rear edge is destroyed by recoiling, being pushed back, fleeing or being in a column whose front element is destroyed.“ This rule is the result of weeks of discussion among the play testers. What to do with partial contacts left over if the front element is destroyed and the back element is still flanked. Phil used the Gordian knot solution, cutting through the problem. Destroy them all. To this point, a 3rd element of Cv behind the 2nd would NOT be destroyed because it doesn't have any front enemy edge in contact with it's side edge correct? Correct. |
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Post by Tony Aguilar on Mar 25, 2019 19:31:48 GMT
Both Cv destroyed.
3Kn in frontal combat pursues 1Bw.
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Post by bob on Mar 25, 2019 19:36:22 GMT
Here is another situation that influences the choice of 15mm or 20mm deep bases for heavy foot. It is possible to flank 3 elements in a column of 15mm deep elements. If the elements are 20mm deep, then only two can be flanked.
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Post by greedo on Mar 25, 2019 19:46:51 GMT
Here is another situation that influences the choice of 15mm or 20mm deep bases for heavy foot. It is possible to flank 3 elements in a column of 15mm deep elements. If the elements are 20mm deep, then only two can be flanked. Oh dear! So do we know what the "spirit" of the rule is? I'm going with only 2 get killed regardless, so that there's no difference, but ya know.. |
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Post by Vic on Mar 25, 2019 19:57:30 GMT
Thanks for the corrections! That makes columns rather more risky than what we've been doing so far.
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Post by Baldie on Mar 25, 2019 20:45:38 GMT
Cant imagine it happening very often but.
If those two cav were LH or Pike able to provide rear support and the knight flanking only hit the rear one, what happens if the LH or PIke lose the combat.
Is just the front element killed or both.
Or would it not happen and the rear LH or Pike just turn to face the flanking Knights
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Post by greedo on Mar 25, 2019 20:53:04 GMT
Cant imagine it happening very often but. If those two cav were LH or Pike able to provide rear support and the knight flanking only hit the rear one, what happens if the LH or PIke lose the combat. Is just the front element killed or both. Or would it not happen and the rear LH or Pike just turn to face the flanking Knights I *think* the rear LH/Pike would turn to face the flanker, pushing back any units even further back in the column, and you'd treat them as separate combats. Although if the lead element got pushed back, then it would recoil into the side of the 2nd LH and be destroyed anyway since it did not move at all. So it sounds like striking the head of the column with both units is the optimal one. |
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Post by Les1964 on Mar 25, 2019 21:20:06 GMT
Cant imagine it happening very often but. If those two cav were LH or Pike able to provide rear support and the knight flanking only hit the rear one, what happens if the LH or PIke lose the combat. Is just the front element killed or both. Or would it not happen and the rear LH or Pike just turn to face the flanking Knights The rear element doesn't turn face , but the front element wouldn't get a - 1 , both would be destroyed . |
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